Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast. We are so excited to have you on this journey with us, where we explore all elements of mind, body, emotions and soul through the lens of everyday life.

Speaker 2: 0:29

Hello Kim.

Speaker 1: 0:31

Hello Gareth.

Speaker 2: 0:32

How are you doing this evening?

Speaker 1: 0:34

I am surviving. How are you?

Speaker 2: 0:36

You had a pretty crazy weekend.

Speaker 1: 0:38

I've had a pretty full-on five days. Yes, I have, and for those of you who don't know, I was helping take care of my two beautiful grandchildren.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Who are both under the age of three. Three, yeah, it's quite a handful.

Speaker 1: 0:53

How quickly we forget.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Once again, another interesting episode for this week.

Speaker 1: 0:59

It is indeed going to be interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:02

But I do think we've all, especially when we've been on this journey of exploring ourselves I think especially when new age started to become a huge deal and more accessible and, of course, the different elements of psychology and self-help. There's always been such a hype, even still to this day, around positivity and for the long-term listeners of this podcast, they know we've had some interesting comments in the past surrounding positivity and the role that it of course, plays in the journey of understanding self. But then sometimes how people can, unintentionally maybe, lean too much into it to the point of where it actually causes an imbalance in our lives which can come at a surprise or a shock to us, because we think how can you ever be imbalanced when it comes to being such a positive person? Right, but what we don't realize is how that level of positivity isn't necessarily organic. It can be forced, it's more of a mindset and it's actually burying a lot of other things that maybe we weren't quite aware of. That's exactly what we were doing.

Speaker 1: 2:04

Yes, I agree, but not always. We're not saying it always is, but it has a tendency to bury a lot of things when people haven't had the ability or the curiosity or the support to explore some of the things that they don't want to be looking at in their lives.

Speaker 2: 2:23

Yes, yes, and I think it's where people can deem it as toxic positivity at times.

Speaker 1: 2:29

And.

Speaker 2: 2:30

I know that's quite an extreme version of events, because I do think that of course it plays an important role in our lives and it's important to have, I do think, a positive outlook on life and understanding that there is a reason behind why certain things happen, and to want to see the good in people and the good in the world. But that, but if we don't have a good, solid relationship or foundation with our negative emotions or the experiences we've gone through and we're just forcing ourselves or forcing others to talk only positive and that they're not allowed to be communicative or expressive about what's going on with their lives, without no no, you just need to change your mindset and be positive about it, and it's just when you throw positivity at a negative. It doesn't make the negative go away. The negative just has to be stored in a different way and always comes up in a new creative element in any of our lives.

Speaker 1: 3:23

In random ways, and the way that I usually describe this is you know, we know that the tendency of the mind is towards the negative, and that is for security and safety reasons, and so what usually happens is because the mind has a propensity for the negativity and the risk assessment. When we start to get on this journey that we're on not when we get on it when we wake up to the fact that we want to get curious the automatic thing that happens is the pendulum swing where we go from Mr or Mrs Negative all the time over to well, I just have to be positive, and if I just continue to throw positivity at this, it's going to change it, because we are surrounded by a world that talks about especially in the new age stuff about speaking it into truth, and while there is truth in speaking it into truth, we can only speak it into truth if we have worked through the other that we don't want to look at.

Speaker 2: 4:24

Yeah, being around positive people, being positive, changing your language, changing your wording, that's all great, but, as you're saying, it does not help you understand what you still don't understand, which has caused any of us to be in a negative mindset, in a depressive phase, and whatever the language you want to choose. So this is where I think there can be confusion out there of how to get that balance, because naturally, of course, it's nice to be around positive people who have a really nice perspective of the world and want to see everyone happy and smiling, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think it is encouraged, but not as a defensive mechanism away from a sense of reality that you as a person have lived and still don't understand.

Speaker 1: 5:06

Very true. I have lived it and I still don't understand it.

Speaker 1: 5:10

Didn't mean it directly towards you, that's okay, I heard it directly, so I don't mind taking that on.

Speaker 1: 5:19

And it's true Because I want you to think about it. I know that when I first started getting curious about why my life was the way it was and trying to understand it, of course I fell into that trap of always being positive, but it just sent me down a different spiral of failure or not good enough or not worthy enough, because I couldn't maintain it. And I had the naive outlook that when I ran into people who were optimistic or who were positive, I held the belief that they were that all the time, which is not possible for anybody to be that positivity all the time, to be that positivity all the time. And so that is where it starts to become a problem, because then we start judging our insides based on what we perceive someone else's outsides are, which is that positivity? Or even if people are saying, oh, all you have to do is be blah, blah, blah, and you haven't been able to manage to do that because the negativity is so weighing you down and you don't understand it, then it just adds another layer.

Speaker 2: 6:35

And what you just said the reality is, from any of our experiences, is that when we find ourselves in tricky positions, where we do find ourselves leaning into that more negative bias and we see people being so positive even though we don't know at that stage, that's, we think that's the way they are all the time, but, as you said, they're absolutely not. We can all find different examples where we've all thrown ourselves into different extremes throughout life in order to actually find the truth out. What does actually mean for us? What does this bring up in me? And that is how we discover who we are and how we operate in this world.

Speaker 2: 7:08

At the end of the day, I think that's when understanding of what is, uh, our approach, that is, has a healthy optimism about life, versus, say, it's being an overbearing approach in the sense of like always look on the bright side, meaning we can never allow ourselves to go to where life is actually taking us. And I think that's where it can be a bit. We can be a bit delusional at times what we're actually going through, and that's what puts us into autopilot modes and just put a smile on your face and avoid and keep pushing. And I think sometimes we're not always quite aware of the origins or the influences of what has put us in that position or why we do that to start with.

Speaker 1: 7:49

Well, and I know so many people that have tried that, and you know it does tend to silence some real concerns when they haven't had an understanding of what, let's say, someone who's been dealing with depression had an understanding of what, let's say, someone who's been dealing with depression.

Speaker 1: 8:09

So if they're dealing with depression and someone's telling them always look on the bright side, or all you have to do is speak positive words all the time, well, that does not shift depression at all, and so that then can lead to so many other difficulties in that person's life and just compound the misunderstandings that they've already picked up and cause them to go. Oh well, I might as well just completely detach emotionally because I can't get it right anyway, which is very dangerous for lots of people, because I think one of the most responsible things we can do here is point out that the brain does have a negative bias and that we are going to feel not positive at some point in our life many multiple points of our life and but it goes back to that.

Speaker 2: 8:58

I think unrealistic understanding that people assume that emotions are a choice.

Speaker 2: 9:05

You can just choose to be happy and as if someone's choosing to be depressed, and this is where there is a lack of education or understanding about what goes on within a person when anyone finds themselves in that position or in those phases within their lives, like it's not a choice. So I think when someone may overly simplifies it, as you're saying, it can actually cause more damage than good, because I think the way it's not trying to force positivity into our lives or forcing into other people's lives, to me the positive outlook is we can work through this, there is light at the end of the tunnel, but we need to do this in stages and in sections to understand why the mind-body emotions is actually producing these emotions in this way. What's it trying to guide us towards? But us trying to smother ourselves in positivity, in hopes that gives us a better understanding? I've yet to see that actually cause results that have been able to be sustained longer term to actually give us what we want and and that is the key word sustained.

Speaker 2: 10:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:06

To be able to sustain that long term. Today I was in a shop and I heard two people overheard two people greet each other and it was that sickly, sickly sweet, positive. Oh, it's so good to see the falseness of it. It was like fingernails on a scratch board to me, because I listened to this banter back and forth for about 30 seconds and I was like, just walk away, just walk away, because it sounded the tones of their voice was that really high-pitched, happy. Oh look, everything is wonderful and great, and but it just rang so false and so I was just like and what I love is my very first teacher years ago I'm going to swear here, so please apologize taught us to make sure you have your bullshit monitor on at all times.

Speaker 1: 11:04

And it couldn't have gotten louder in that moment today. And that is what false positivity does, and I think almost every single person listening to this podcast tonight will be able to identify with the story I just talked about and recognize that it's almost insulting when someone is trying to throw that false positivity at you when you know that it's that's not what you're picking up. So I think it's interesting, but I think it's part of the culture that we've been brought into with social media and the self-help culture and the spirituality culture that we're in, that if we are not doing that, then we are not really working on ourselves.

Speaker 2: 11:55

So what's the saying? A friend to all is a friend to none.

Speaker 1: 12:00

Yes, okay, I haven't heard that one, but I like it, I like it.

Speaker 2: 12:05

But again, I think it rings true at times because we just find ourselves into those autopilot modes of we can't actually display what we're really going through to the outside world. And especially if we bump into somebody that we haven't seen in a few years or catches us off guard, it's like suddenly you're smiling, you're fixing your hair, your coat, you're sucking your stomach in, especially if we bump into somebody that we haven't seen in a few years or catches us off guard. It's like suddenly you're smiling, you're fixing your hair, your coat, you're sucking your stomach in, you're doing everything to try to put your best foot forward to try to be as positive about your life as humanly possible.

Speaker 2: 12:37

And the funny thing is, as you're saying, is that everyone can recognize that high-pitched tone of pretending to be content to see one another, but both internally are screaming going. How do I get out of this situation?

Speaker 1: 12:48

yes, that's exactly what I picked up today. Oh my god, how did I run into this person?

Speaker 2: 12:53

yeah. So we've all been there in our own ways and I think we all think of certain people or certain circumstances in which that has happened. But that is a social norm. Is that we can't? Actually, if someone asks how are you doing, we're actually not going to say no, I hate my partner, the kids are at me recently, the I'm actually in so much debt right now I hate my job. Thanks for asking. No, it's positively going, yeah, some options at work and we might be moving house. Not saying because we're bankrupt didn't say which direction, you know, is that we have to try to spin it. And reality is that we're doing that more for ourselves, because we don't even want to say our own truth outwardly for the other person to hear, because we don't even know how to deal with what we're going through, nevermind someone else asking.

Speaker 1: 13:44

Or like, for example, for me you know, I had a full-on five days and my brother actually called me today and he said how are you going, sis? And I said well, I just got back from five days of taking care of McCall and Jess's kids. And he goes oh, so you're a happy grandma? And I said yeah, that's not quite how I'd spin it.

Speaker 2: 14:03

I'm a grandma.

Speaker 1: 14:05

I'm definitely a grandmother and I've definitely discovered that I want to be a part-time grandmother and I love those children. There is no doubt about it. But it was just the intensity and what I think is what we can say is we don't have to put the doom and gloom on it, but the reality of what the situation was. I was overwhelmed, it was extremely tiring and, as much as I love these little people, it was a bit much after working full-time all the time and I think people, people really appreciate reality versus the false positivity and it allows them to be able to be honest about what's going on for them and it kind of helps eliminate that fear of not being positive all the time or that fear of the negativity that comes with it. And I didn't paint it as all doom and gloom I. I just was like it was.

Speaker 2: 15:07

You know this is what happened.

Speaker 1: 15:09

It was a bit much. I'm still recovering. Ask me next week and it'll be all happy, but this week it's still too real.

Speaker 2: 15:17

You're still in recovery, yes, but I think that's interesting, though, because when we talk about negativity, a lot of us actually aren't expressing, because when you and I are talking about finding a balance, it's actually about expressing positive and negative experiences and everything in between. What we don't realize is that we're either often complaining, which isn't necessarily expressing.

Speaker 1: 15:39

Yeah, about what we're actually going.

Speaker 2: 15:41

What's what's going on for us or what's going on in the situation. Or else we're being extremely positive, to the point of toxic positivity and putting a massive spin on it, and that's not expressing either. Both are different ways of actually avoiding the core of what actually needs to be expressed, that creates the change that we would actually want or desire. But, as we both know, a lot of us actually are quite fearful of change and what that represents. So that's why we turn to complaining. Or extreme positivity, because both of those don't lead to change, because, as human beings, we don't like change. We don't know how to process change, and change often represents more things we have to process or go through. That's why there can be a resistance to doing it. So that's why we find ourselves going from either extreme negativity, where we're spiraling, or extreme positivity, where everything smells like artificial roses Right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 16:33

And both stink for very different reasons.

Speaker 1: 16:35

Yes, yes, and finding that middle ground, you know, from that pendulum swinging, is trial and error, you know, and it is about finding the honesty in yourself.

Speaker 2: 16:50

Let's take a step back from this week's episode and share with everyone what we've been up to behind the scenes.

Speaker 1: 16:55

We're really excited to be able to finally offer the Gareth Michael community to each of you. The community offers a range of benefits, including access to our live events, weekly podcast episodes, articles, self-checking questions, as well as a community of individuals you can connect with and interact with along the way. It's designed to offer you support, guidance and a safe space on a day-to-day basis. We'd love to have you join our global community of like-minded individuals. That website address, again, is wwwgarethmichaelcom. Now let's get back to that episode, shall we Like?

Speaker 1: 17:38

I can honestly sit here and tell everyone I truthfully love every single aspect of those kids. It still overwhelmed me. I still got tired. That's the reality of it. That doesn't mean I don't want to spend more time with them. It just simply means I'm recognizing my limitations, and the more honest I can be about what my limitations are, the easier it is for us to interact in that situation. But that is the part that everybody shies away from, because we don't want to hurt the other person's feelings about the reality of being, you know, full on for that many days.

Speaker 2: 18:16

Yeah, because you're saying it's the not wanting to hurt the other person's feelings, but sometimes we don't want to be honest to ourselves about what we're feeling also and then to express that and that becomes a risk of maybe hurting them.

Speaker 2: 18:28

So I just think we have so many layers in which we are trained to be dishonest with ourselves and therefore, when that exists, we're then pushed to either extreme to try to find a balance which neither pendulum swing as you mentioned there actually achieves that. It just continues to break us down in new ways and continues to compound over many years and so. But that goes back to what we talked about briefly earlier. So that is a societal reality that we've all been taught those skill sets, those behaviors, those patterns, and so we've only been. We can only begin to change that by going back into self. But, like most things, if we find ourselves going to either extreme, it tends to be fear leading that charge more often than not. So maybe we should dive into that of beginning to recognize what is this fear that's either pushing us into toxic positivity, to the point of where it's unbearable even to ourselves sometimes, or even the fear that pushes us into the complaining mode. I think both are very interesting angles.

Speaker 1: 19:33

Well, I think also, they're all very multi-layered on so many different levels as well. It depends on our upbringing. On our upbringing, you know. If we've been told that these emotions that we call negative emotions, which I don't necessarily like, I just go emotions are emotions, they're neither good nor bad, but we have labeled them negative and we have learned that they're bad.

Speaker 1: 19:57

So therefore, if you have them, there must be something wrong with you. And then we internalize that belief, which then becomes shame when we do have it. And then we don't that belief, which then becomes shame when we do have it. And then we don't even understand. We meet someone and they're telling you about a great weekend they've had, and you go into the shame. And so then you therefore don't want to talk about the reality of your weekend because you're afraid of the judgment. You're afraid of not meeting the status quo, not being able to measure the same place somebody else is, or the sadness, or even own the sadness, that you are not having the type of weekend that you want to have. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 20:35

So there's so many different layers to this fear that we're talking about. There's the fear of even just sitting with the uncomfortability of it being the way it was. How many times do we have an idea of how we want something to be? I don't know of anybody that goes oh, I'm going to go away for the weekend and paints it as a negative experience. Always paint the most possible best case scenario and that if it doesn't hit that scenario, then it was bad. And then there's that fear of being able to go. Oh well, it didn't actually meet the expectations I had for it. So I think, recognizing all these different levels and layers of fear, around the discomfort of emotions, the labeling of them, what our beliefs are around positive and negative, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:31

Because I know you come up to me and you're super positive. I'm like what?

Speaker 2: 21:38

You better watch yourself.

Speaker 1: 21:41

My radar just went on.

Speaker 2: 21:49

So, for our listeners, what's the best way to?

Speaker 1: 21:50

approach you if they see you just be real. I think being real is the answer, don't you think?

Speaker 2: 21:58

yeah, yeah, without realizing it, we're often trying to dodge what's really going on inside of us, and we'll use either side of the spectrum in order to do that, because we don't know how to process or deal with our own realities. That's coming up present day, and I think when there's that much miscommunication going on internally and then you're also being expected to play certain roles externally in the world, you can see how that's quite a storm. In order to how to find your place or how to understand who you are, how to actually find peace with himself. It certainly becomes a very layered process, as you're saying, and we've all heard the different sayings that come out in life, and I think it depends on the person that's coming from of whether it's actually said with good intention or it's actually said just now. Let's end this conversation.

Speaker 2: 22:45

So what I mean by that is it can be, phrases, certain phrases, like you know, just be happy, never a great one. So meaning single your entire life, just one emotion. I can't see that flying longer, or it could be worse. You love that one.

Speaker 1: 23:04

Yeah, love that one.

Speaker 2: 23:06

Or telling people or asking someone to don't dwell on it Just don't think about it, kim or the one that I am caught, and I'll admit that I say all the time is that everything happens for a reason.

Speaker 1: 23:17

So I'm going to argue this one because, you know, if it comes with a caveat, everything happens for a reason I don't think it's such a bad one, the one that really gets me more than that. Just stop caring. Just stop caring, kim, like you know, why do you care so much? Well, hello people, if I knew how to stop caring, don't you think I would have To me? It seems so redundant. I'm like what You're telling're telling me. Just why do you even care? Well, because I'm human yeah, I like people.

Speaker 2: 23:52

Maybe I care for you, maybe I like you, maybe I want the best for you. I'm sorry and it's well intended, but it's like so in any of these phrases, obviously depending on which one we're talking about, if you're using it at the end of a conversation, that means this conversation is over, or if you're using it at the start of the conversation, it's actually opening up exploration of what's actually going on. So it's all about the, as I said, the intention of the person in which it's coming from.

Speaker 1: 24:23

Yes, yes, will actually guide where it's coming from. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 24:25

Will actually guide where it's going to take you in actually exploring self or understanding what's going on within any of us.

Speaker 2: 24:32

But I think what's also not talked about that often is that even when we're trying to find our feet and understanding what the roles of positivity and negativity play in our lives, is that the emotional toll it ends up having on us when we do find ourselves in that overly positive state of mind in our day-to-day lives or even with the people around us?

Speaker 2: 24:54

So I actually found this that it makes it very hard to build authentic relationships where everyone can actually be vulnerable with one another and actually discuss what they're going through. Because all of a sudden, if you're all about that positive mindset, that positive emotions, is like there's no room for guilt or shame or feeling sad or having a bad day suddenly you're isolating so many human qualities that we do need in this life, because life is full of a lot of hardships and that's not all life is. But when you are met with that reality and suddenly you won't allow yourself or the people around you to express that without having to correct them, how does that not begin to have an emotional toll on you and the people around you in its own way?

Speaker 1: 25:42

Well, it has to have that emotional toll because it's just not possible and basically the minute that we're doing that, we're telling someone that they're not okay as they are, or what they're experiencing in this moment, and so how can anybody gain insight if, when they go to express it, it's met with guilt or shame or isolating their experience as different or not?

Speaker 1: 26:08

okay, they're going to naturally just add another layer of that guilt or shame or whatever it is that they've been adding to. So it's about then recognizing that there is a time and a place to have these type of conversations around the positivity or the negativity, like if someone had said to me last night when I got home we used to be happy, we spent five days with you, yeah, okay, great. I'm sorry I didn't feel that way. I mean I did. I did have so many moments of great happiness, but I had a lot of moments of exhaustion and I had a lot of moments of not knowing exactly what the right thing to do, and it's not like you said. Most of us will fall into the complaining or going to the other extreme instead of just. This was the reality of what it is yeah, this is what I'm feeling now.

Speaker 2: 26:58

It doesn't mean I'll feel this way tomorrow, and I think this is where we've all been around those people. And again, they have stuff going on in their own lives. So it's not a judgment, but it's. You could see how someone might say to you was a lot of people would wish to have grandkids, kim, why are you complaining? A lot of people are robbed of that. A lot of people don't even get a chance to see their grandkids. They live in different countries and it goes back to what you said about a, even the examples you would have used. And there's kids in africa that wanted that food. Kim, eat your food.

Speaker 1: 27:28

Yes, but yes, I mean, people would say that to me, and that is they unintentionally shaming you for having feelings. And I think that is the part about what we're saying about the out of balance of positive and negative, and instead of having to label whatever we're feeling as positive or negative, can we just accept that they're all emotions and that every layer of emotion has something that it can teach us if we're paying attention to it?

Speaker 2: 27:59

But I think it's kind of like how that level of positivity can cause so much blindness as well. Because, even going back to that other example or quote, we've all heard that love is blind, and it can be similar if we find ourselves practicing toxic positivity or an overwhelming amount of positivity. It's as if the person can do no wrong. So it's like we're actually gaslighting reality for everyone. So if one of your grandkids did something or hit the other child and it's like, oh, they didn't mean to, they didn't mean that they were just doing this, or they're just doing that, or they're putting a positive spin on something actually very negative that just happened, do you get what I mean? It's actually like you're starting to gaslight.

Speaker 1: 28:41

not just a person, but reality, the reality of the situation and completely discounting the effect it had on the other person as well. And so you're basically saying the other person doesn't really exist or doesn't really count. Yeah, and one of the key things and one of the reasons it was so overwhelming know, just so that the listeners have some background when my daughter-in-law had her second child, I came and stayed for a week and I believe that their oldest child started to associate me with a parent leaving. So when I now show up at the house, his immediate reaction is no, grandma, no.

Speaker 1: 29:25

Okay, that's not personal, but when you hear it for five days straight, you start to feel it a little bit personally. And that is not saying I'm not going to gaslight myself and saying that doesn't hurt. Even though I intellectually understand why this child is reacting the way he is reacting, okay, it's still there's going to be those moments when I'm exhausted that that feeling comes through and someone going, oh, but you know he doesn't really mean it. Well, on one level I do, but there's another part of me that goes well wait a minute, but he's still saying it.

Speaker 1: 29:58

He's still saying it. It's still hitting at that area where it really hurts.

Speaker 2: 30:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:03

And I think that is where we then start to get the richness of it, because it points to an area that there's still wound in me. I'm able to freely discuss that and not place blame on him. I do logically understand why he's doing it, but thank you, my beautiful little guy, for showing me where I still have some wounds to look at. Could have waited, could have waited a little while, but that's okay, I got the message.

Speaker 2: 30:36

No matter what we're going through in life, there's always going to be an emotional toll of some kind and I think it's by putting ourselves in a position where it's actually worth the emotional toll. So we all know that even when we're being honest about what we're feeling, we're going through knowing that we may not feel the same way tomorrow in any of us expressing. We know that that could have an effect on someone else and just having that honest conversation and that's why a lot of us avoid in the past I've avoided honest conversations. We don't want to trigger ourselves, we don't have to deal with our own emotions, what that brings up on us. But either way, there's a cost and you have to figure out which one is actually worth bearing and to me is the one where we push things down, costs way more and needs to compound and actually puts us into a lot of mental and emotional debt over many years, versus the other one considerably helps us break free from that debt.

Speaker 2: 31:25

We've been taught or been given that burden from previous generations or from a societal sense. So when we think it's that throwing positivity towards these situations, that's just turning a blind eye to that sense of reality and it's not really solving anything and we might actually buy into that for a period of time. I do actually think there's a period of time where we do feel the benefits of this immense level of positivity. Why? Because it's just a different change from all the negativity we find ourselves living in, so it can be refreshing. But is it sustainable?

Speaker 2: 31:59

as we talked about at the start of this episode, no it's not Because we actually haven't learned anything, we haven't necessarily processed anything, we haven't dealt with those experiences, those realities or even the stuff that's currently going on in present day. So of course, at some stage it has to catch up with us, because we can't run from ourselves or the range of emotions in which we're here to experience. So that brings us on to, I guess, the next section of the episode of what's a healthier way we can begin to approach positivity, so that we're not pushing it into extremity to try to avoid the things we've never been taught to deal with.

Speaker 1: 32:35

Well, I personally think one of the first steps is to take the conditioning out of the emotions, which is, you know, good emotions or bad emotions, positive emotions or negative emotions. They are just emotions.

Speaker 2: 32:49

Agreed.

Speaker 1: 32:49

And then being able to validate those emotions, whatever they are. So once we can validate that, oh, I'm feeling hurt. Okay, yep, that's true, I am feeling hurt. I don't have to associate that hurt or push the blame on anyone. I'm just validating that's what's happening for me, rather than trying to repress it like the beach ball under the water, hoping it's not going to pop out at the wrong time. And then I guess there is the balanced optimism and anyone that knows me well enough, I'm constantly going you know, okay, so that was then and this is now. So, yes, it was very big deal then and right now, how is it for you now? And that's when you can have that balanced optimism.

Speaker 1: 33:41

The other thing I've learned, gareth, more than anything, is, as I have had the ability to process and understand what these emotions have come to show me, I have gained a sense of wisdom for lack of a better way of saying it wisdom and I'm able to look at it completely differently because I can see what it has taught me. Now it doesn't change the effect of what happened. What happened happened, but I've gained a new perspective once I've understood what those emotions meant at that time. So those are just a couple of the things that I know, but also one of the other huge beginning steps is learning that active listening, because so few people actually listen actively. They listen to respond instead of just being present and listening and having empathy for what that other person is experiencing in that moment.

Speaker 2: 34:43

I think that's what's interesting what you're saying. I think that's what's interesting what you're saying. It's only when you start to become more aware of everything you mentioned that it can be hard to validate someone else's emotions when you don't have a great relationship with your own. Because even if you want to, with the best intentions, it's hard to be present at times if there's so much going on in your own head, so much going on in your own life. And, as you said, a lot of the time people are just waiting for the person to stop talking so they can talk about themselves. But even when they're talking about themselves doesn't mean that they're actually expressing being honest in conversation about what's going on. And that's why we can find ourselves in a lot of these trauma bonding friendships where it's that we're bonding over our lack of ability to communicate about what's really going on in each other's lives, and we'll talk about the positive times of our past every time we meet over a drink or a coffee or something like that, and many years can pass. So is there anything wrong with that? Yes and no, you know, because it, but I'm saying when we find ourselves wanting to start to open up.

Speaker 2: 35:49

That's why it can actually be tricky to expect more from these relationships or friendships that they're actually not maybe capable of giving us as we're going through this transition, even in our own lives.

Speaker 2: 36:00

So, as we often say in many of the episodes, that's where we do need to turn to different professionals, people who actually can understand. Hold that space for us, continue to educate our logical mind, both consciously and subconsciously, of all these different skill sets that we just didn't have the opportunity in life as of yet to actually develop. That is the starting process of actually shifting away from any toxic positivity but it can also argue from toxic negativity, because the reality is that we want to have a great relationship, as you were saying, with all of our emotions and our ability to communicate it, but to hold space for ourselves primarily first, but then learn how to actually also hold space for other individuals in our lives that are also maybe at some stage going to be going through that transitionary period of wanting to be more honest about what they're going through. And it is kind of an upsetting fact that life often takes us life does take us to a breaking point before we're even able to be that honest with ourselves.

Speaker 2: 36:59

Yes and yes, that was a heavy sigh, I'm just you know, relating yeah, but that is part of the journey, I want to say, of graduating this life, because we find our all ourselves in toxic negativity, toxic positivity, trying to find the different people that we can communicate to without life, open up to the wrong people, open up to the right people, and then we to the right people, and then we find the right people. They can get taken away from us. It's like we all, but it always goes back to building that relationship with self, knowing that these things can even exist to start with. That is more often not the journey of finding that balance within ourselves, instead of being reliant on any extreme just to get through life. And it's only when you take a step back you realize how much of a rarity that actually is in having those skill sets from day one. I don't think any person does.

Speaker 1: 37:54

Very, very few people do, and so I know I can say that I've been working on myself for a very long time and I'm still finding new skills, I'm still finding new ways, I'm still finding new layers, and I don't say that with dread or regret or any of that. It just is what it is and will be as long as I'm here.

Speaker 2: 38:18

Yeah, you're saying it more matter of fact, because we're constantly evolving and changing and life still continues to bring experiences to our front door that we may not have asked for on a human level, but it doesn't stop them from arriving. So we're constantly being, if you want to say I don't like saying the word test, and I don't believe life is a test. Life's an experience to be understood and to be explored, but life still is like how about this? Are you going to apply your knowledge from that? Are you going to? You know, are you going to go down the slippery slope? Are you going toapse? Are you going to? But life has always been that way and will continue to be that way, and I think it continues to question are we going to go to either extreme or are we going to use the skill sets or the journey has taught us to do it in order to find that balance and peace within ourselves?

Speaker 1: 39:03

And I think the other thing that we haven't actually covered here yet that I want to talk about is, as we start to build this emotional vocabulary that we're talking about, we might find that we only have a relationship with negative emotions, or we only have a relationship, or we've only ever allowed ourselves to look at those positive emotions or what we've deemed as that.

Speaker 1: 39:26

And so sometimes I'll be working with people and they can't even identify what it would be like if they didn't have the negative or what it would be like if they didn't have the positive, because they have no vocabulary and no relationship with the opposite, because it's been so unbalanced for so long.

Speaker 1: 39:45

So it's in understanding that the more we start to express and explore these emotions, it reduces the discomfort around being with those emotions.

Speaker 1: 39:56

That allows us to have a more neutral effect when we're working through those emotions. So I think basically what we're trying to say overall that we both really love positivity, but we also want to have an equal relationship with the negativity, and that neither are more important than the other. And it's in finding that balance within ourselves and within our emotions that we really start to grow and blossom from these states that we were afraid of in the past, and the more that we do that and the more that we're paying attention to what we're doing in those emotions, whether we're conversing with somebody else or whether we're really delving into the relationship with ourself. It's not about using those dismissive verbiages that we've picked up on social media to shame or blame ourselves, but it's about being authentic and having that sense of kindness to ourselves, to really hear what's happening for ourselves, and the more that we do that, life does tend to feel more balanced on so many different levels.

Speaker 2: 41:04

Couldn't have said it better, Missy different levels.

Speaker 1: 41:07

Couldn't have said it better. I must say Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, then you might want to check out our online community. We built it to offer you the comfort of having a supportive community by your side, no matter where life takes you. Connect with like-minded individuals through our app. Navigate each step of the journey together with us by joining our Gareth Michael community. Here are a few of the things you're going to get. You'll get exclusive real-time access to live recording and events. Advanced access to each new episode. The opportunity to ask questions directly of Gareth and I Input into what topics we cover in the show. Access to exclusive content not available anywhere else. To learn more about our community, please go to wwwgarethmichaelcom. Thanks again, and I hope you guys are having a lovely week.