Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast. We are so excited to have you on this journey with us, where we explore all elements of mind, body, emotions and soul through the lens of everyday life.

Speaker 2: 0:29

Hello Kim.

Speaker 1: 0:30

Hello Gareth, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:32

I'm doing good. How are you doing?

Speaker 1: 0:33

Yes, I am good too. It's early, but it's good.

Speaker 2: 0:37

I think you're going to thoroughly enjoy the topic for this evening.

Speaker 1: 0:41

You do, do you.

Speaker 2: 0:42

I do. You know how you enjoy all of the topics I bring up.

Speaker 1: 0:47

I know I feel like you just run through my life and go oh, let's do this one.

Speaker 2: 0:53

But for this week's episode, we're going to be talking about a topic that we've probably both been avoiding, like most other people in their lives.

Speaker 1: 1:01

I would say so.

Speaker 2: 1:02

So the topic is running in their lives. I would say so. So the topic is running, not necessarily the exercise or the sport of running, but running away from ourselves or running from something going on within our lives, past, present, or maybe even running away from something that might happen in the future.

Speaker 1: 1:18

I'm seriously thinking you need to get some topics that I might be able to relate to instead of these topics. It's so foreign to me.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Yes, and I think we've been running from this topic itself, so it's caught up to us.

Speaker 1: 1:35

It has.

Speaker 2: 1:37

When you hear the term running, what comes to mind?

Speaker 1: 1:41

My life.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Straight in there mind my life.

Speaker 1: 1:54

You asked you know me. I don't beat around the bush. Now, when I hear that term running, it does remind me of my life, because I didn't know I was running as much as I was for a long time, but as I started to work on myself, I'm a professional runner and I'm sure many of us are out there. But what it basically means is my definition might be a little bit different than others, because mine was always running away from the pain, like I'm pretty sure I was aware at a young age that I've been running away. That's the addiction. I'm pretty sure I was aware at a young age that I've been running away. That's the addiction. However, there's so many different ways that most people run, so that's what comes to mind when you first ask me about running.

Speaker 2: 2:34

And I think that's interesting and relevant and a lot of people would be able to relate to that, because I think we're all running from different aspects and elements of our life, but we're not always fully aware that we're in fact doing that, because it's just been something that we've been doing, as you said, our entire lives. The things in which we're running from and the ways in which we run away from it continues to evolve and change as we go throughout life and as our understandings evolve and as we continue to grow in this life. So when you want to talk about that, you realize that there must be things evolve and as are as we continue to grow in this life. So someone has talked out that you realize that there must be a spiritual understanding behind this, especially if all eight billion of us are apparently doing it at the same time, no wonder the earth is spinning.

Speaker 1: 3:15

We're all running but you know, I think that's interesting because you go no wonder. But I think how many people ever think about they're running like I don't. I the only reason I thought about it is because it got in my face so many times that I couldn't deny it anymore. But I don't think that everybody is aware that's what they're doing and I know. For me, as I started to look at myself and I started to grow and started to change, it got more subtle and more subtle and more subtle how the running showed up in my life.

Speaker 2: 3:49

I agree with that and I think it's just our relationship with running evolves and change, because I don't think we can ever stop running from certain elements, because that's where, as long as we are running, we're continuously opening up new creative ways to understand new elements of ourselves or new opportunities to grow in different ways. And I think that is the theme of what it means to be human and what it means to be a spiritual being. Here, as you said, I think it's because we've only ever seen everyone doing it from a young age, and we've been doing it ourselves and we all have trauma in our lives that is unprocessed, that is misunderstood, that we've never really had the opportunity or chance to question it or explore it, and even when we are aware of it doesn't mean it's the right time to or we want to. And then we're just aware what we're starting to run from, which beforehand we were just running because it was normalized and a standard. So this is what we've been talking about before.

Speaker 2: 4:43

It's so layered in the human experience. But then what that actually represents for each and every one of us, because running this basically represents the common behaviors of avoiding something, silencing ourselves, silencing an experience, the busyness that we create because we don't want to sit with our thoughts, sit with our emotions, sit with others, sit with ourselves, and how even addictions and different things can help us escape in many different forms from things that we've never had the chance to fully understand, of elements of experiences we've been through, or why people even behave the way they do towards us. So it's quite a mouthful and you can understand what suddenly is funding.

Speaker 2: 5:28

Everyone's running is kind of the point, because how can you not be running when there's this much unknown about ourselves in every single person out of the billion plus people?

Speaker 1: 5:39

I couldn't agree more with that and I think you have to look at these aspects that you were just talking about the avoidance or the escapism or the busyness. You know, I encompass all of those at any given time and there's nothing that will piss me off more than someone go. Oh, you know, you're so busy, you're so busy people don't say it all to you, Sherry.

Speaker 1: 6:01

People don't say that to me. Yeah, and you know I come by it honestly. I had a very workaholic father as well, and my mother wasn't emotionally there on the landscape, and so neither parent. They were both busy running in their own way. And that's what I think. We don't notice it. You know, we'll joke about being a workaholic, we'll joke about not being present, but we don't even realize that's what we're doing and we don't know what we're escaping from. And that becomes pretty important, I think, because, of course, the shadow side of us goes. We don't really need to look at that. That's why we're running.

Speaker 1: 6:44

Yeah, the shadow side of us because we don't really need to look at that. That's why we're running. So when it's presented to us we're like, no, I'm not doing that. But I think it is important to look at some of the reasons why we do that run. Like the amount of people that are afraid of confrontation, and that fear in itself I don't want to face, I don't even want to. If it looks like somebody else is going to be upset, I don't even want to go there.

Speaker 1: 7:09

And the amount of people that have said that to me is just it's shocking. But then the insidious ones are the shame and the guilt. Look at how many people that encompasses on the planet. Who of us does not have shame and who of us does not have guilt on some level? And then, of course, because of some of the stuff that's happened to us, we have that need to control. And who would have thought that control is a way of running? I mean escapism, obviously, but control. I remember when I was first confronting the whole control aspect and I was like it's not possible, that's not a way of running away, but it very much is. So when you think about all the reasons why we're running, it makes a whole lot more sense that we're not aware of it, because these things have been showing up since we were very little and we were taught since we were very little the different ways to run away.

Speaker 2: 8:06

When I think of running, what comes to mind for me, in a simplistic way, is what funds any of our running abilities is the fear and the misunderstanding of experience real experiences we've been through but still don't understand why it happened, or the ability to process the emotions or the reality around it.

Speaker 2: 8:28

And when you've had so many different experiences that continue to compound, that is constantly misunderstood and there's all this emotion around it and life still keeps coming at us, then it's no wonder why we have a fear of confrontation, why we feel so much pain, why, as you mentioned, the shame, that guilt, and then why we have such a desire for that need of control.

Speaker 2: 8:52

And then, when we can't have control, why we slip into. I need to escape and I think, no matter who you are and both of us included in this, we can still find areas in our lives present day where those things can still be relevant and, yes, it evolves and changes we explore never stops being relevant in some way, shape or form. But it is all based or backed off that reality, as you were mentioning, of experiences that happened at a young age, that we never really understood to start with, and that's where the fear comes from and the misunderstanding of those experiences. So we run because there's actually no person to turn to to help guide us, to actually sit us down and explain this to us. So what do we do? We run like any innocent child would, because there's so much fear present of something we just experienced.

Speaker 1: 9:43

And so it's a wonder that we ever do any evolution at the rate that we're going, because think of all the topics that we've covered and how most of it originates from the fact that we have not been able to understand the experiences that we've had. And so, as a professional runner for most of my life, I can absolutely agree with it. I didn't even know what shame was until my mid-30s. I didn't even have a clue what that word actually meant. Like I was familiar with the word but I didn't know what it meant in relevance to me. That's how well I was running and I was like I don't want to go in and explore this particular thing.

Speaker 1: 10:25

We're like so many people have that fear of confrontation and I find that amazing. Yet I have it too. I find it amazing, on different levels, that the people have it, yet I will avoid confrontation as well and not realize that's what I'm doing. So it's so interesting, and my point is, I think it's a miracle that we actually evolve at all, because we're so busy being unaware of all the things that we are meant to try and understand.

Speaker 2: 10:56

I couldn't agree more, and I think it's that no matter how much we are running from something, the reality of this life that I have found is that it always runs faster and it always catches up.

Speaker 1: 11:07

Yes, it absolutely does.

Speaker 1: 11:10

And the other hard thing is is how we spend so much of our life trying to run around it, run over it, run below it, avoid it, run in the opposite direction of it, but the only way is through it is a direction of it, but the only way is through it.

Speaker 1: 11:30

And the level of fear of going through that pain, even though it's not based in reality, it's based on that childhood aspect, so everything looks bigger. I mean, have you ever gone back to your elementary school and gone? Wow, I used to think this was such a big school and it's just this tiny little thing, because we're no longer the tiny little thing that went there. And that's the same with our issues and the things that we're trying to avoid, because a lot of it happened when we were so tiny it seemed gigantic, but now, if we were to look at, it's not as big, but we're still treating it like it's the boogeyman under the bed and we can't possibly face it yeah, you know, as you said, I think in some ways we're all professional runners, but we all can also tend to run out of breath.

Speaker 2: 12:16

The thing catches up with us because you can only run for so long before we have to address it in some way, shape or form. You can't address one thing and then that's it done for life, I think, depending on the experiences that we go through, it evolves and changes with us. So you and I have heard so many times from different people I've dealt with that we have and it's like, yes, you've dealt with a layer of that. And because we can run from it and then we can bump into it and fall over and get back up and start running again, but then, as experiences in present day keep adding to it, it funds the things that we've been running from from a young age, because we cannot delete those parts of us that have been there from elementary school, even from younger, like they are a part of us.

Speaker 2: 13:09

So this is what I mean by no matter how much work you do on yourself, there's still going to be elements of the running, because it's in the running that is a constant human growth and that's why we can't stop that reality from occurring, and that's why these conversations are important to understand. So then, what's it really all about? Why does this happen? Why do we find ourselves running? Why do we find ourselves in fear of confrontation, and even when we've been doing work 40 years on ourselves, or the pain that appears, or the shame, the guilt and the control and the escapism like what's it really all about? So I think, in beginning to explore that is actually understanding this running ability that we all naturally have, but we never really sat down and taught what it actually costs us, when we're unaware of the fact that we're doing this on an ongoing basis. So what comes to mind? Because you said there, you defined it as your life.

Speaker 1: 14:05

So now, looking back, it's everyone's lives, but I'm using your comes to mind is the disconnection you know, and how often I disconnected from people because I don't know if I was afraid of the confrontation then, but I didn't know how to deal with it, so that if things you know, I would give people a chance to give people a chance and then bam, that's it, You're done, finished, gone. So that disconnection is a huge cost because, especially if that's a coping skill, you end up backing yourself into a corner and not even realizing that you've backed yourself into that corner. So that's one of the ways, but one of the other ways is the patterns and the patterns that you keep repeating. And how many times do we repeat these patterns before we go? Wow, that's familiar. Why is that happening again? Do you know what I mean? It's like I swear I've worked on this. Why is this pattern still here and again? It's that the delayed healing.

Speaker 1: 15:27

But when I think about the delayed healing, it kind of pisses me off, because I started at a very young age and I often have said, as we've talked about many times on this podcast why can't we learn this at a younger age?

Speaker 1: 15:43

The way the system is set up, and I am going to say that, I'm going to say the fine print that none of us really got to read when we were making these decisions or our soul was making these decisions is that we're not aware that that is what we're doing and we have to go through so much of it before we have the ability and the emotional maturity to start to turn around and face some of these things. So even if you have the intellectual knowledge at a very young age, that doesn't mean you're going to not run away or confront what you're supposed to grow from because you're not ready. And that is to me the big conundrum with all of this. It's like, oh, you're not supposed to run, but I don't know how to do anything else and I can't learn it at an early age and even though I know about it, I'm still running until that moment when that everything comes together about timing, yeah yeah so I do understand this, like the delayed healing aspect.

Speaker 2: 16:43

It's with a pinch of salt because, as we we talked about before, you can't heal the parts of you that you're meant to heal until you're meant to heal them.

Speaker 2: 16:51

And there's so many different. It's like that old saying when a student is ready, the teacher appears. And there's so many layers when it comes to our ability to explore, to understand these parts of us. From a young age. We're not allowed to talk, we're not allowed to understand any of these elements. Because if we did understand all of these elements, what would be the point of being here, the part of the human experience? Because there'd be nothing to grow from.

Speaker 1: 17:13

So when?

Speaker 2: 17:13

you break it down, you look across eight billion people, you can begin to see why it has to be this way, but it does not mean that it's enjoyable to be aware of that or to actually say it out loud. But in saying that, even with full awareness of these different patterns and behaviors that we might be running from, and even when we are fully willing to dive into it, it's that you can only process and deal with the things that you're allowed to, and there's always more layers that you're not allowed to necessarily know about or address right there. And then, because if we did, it would be too much, I think, for any human experience to actually be exposed to.

Speaker 1: 17:52

See, and I absolutely get that, that's a good thing about having lived the life that I've lived, because there've been so many different layers, so many different awarenesses. So many times I get disappointed because I go what it's here again. You know, as you were saying earlier, but I think, especially from the very beginning, when I first put down the drugs and alcohol and some of the old emotions started to arise, it was absolutely overwhelming and there was no way I could have possibly processed all of it at that time, even if I had wanted to. And I think, as you know, we had a conversation earlier this week and I was shocked at the level of emotion that was still present on a topic that I have visited and that is how I now say it. I have visited it many times. I don't say, oh, I've worked on that. I say, oh, here we are, we're going to visit this one again. Okay, let's see what it looks like this time around the mulberry bush it's like visiting a great aunt you don't like?

Speaker 1: 19:01

yes, she's still alive I personally think there's some benefit in the running. But but do you know what I mean? And it is the honor it's like really having to get honest with ourselves, because the bravado, when we first start this journey of I'm going, as we're growing and we are gaining more emotional maturity, it rocks up again and we go. I've never looked at it like this. The amount of times I've heard people say to me oh, I've never even thought about it like that just as you said before, many people said before.

Speaker 2: 19:54

You said you remember and then you forget and you remember and then you forget, and you remember and then you forget. And I think that's what the interesting cycles of life brings us in is that, even though we visited something 10 years ago, as you said, we weren't ready for, and that's why these experiences from the past they're so important, and I love present moment awareness that we've talked about before. I love a lot of the teachers and authors that are talking about why the present moment is so important. I'll never disagree with that. But the present moment is always, in its own way, going to bring up elements of our own past that we still don't yet understand and the new layers within that.

Speaker 2: 20:41

That is a part of this journey called life, and I think it's that when you start to do that, you can understand the running, instead of it kind of being, oh, I need to run and avoid, or I need to sit down and be in the present moment. And because even a lot of people, they can use spirituality to weaponize running, as if they have to stop running completely. But the point of this conversation is that it's not about stopping the running completely. It's about understanding why the running is a part of life. Let's take a step back from this week's episode and share with everyone what we've been up to behind the scenes.

Speaker 1: 21:18

We're really excited to be able to finally offer the Gareth Michael community to each of you. The community offers a range of benefits, including access to our live events, weekly podcast episodes, articles, self-checking questions, as well as a community of individuals you can connect with and interact with along the way. It's designed to offer you support, guidance and a safe space on a day-to-day basis. We'd love to have you join our global community of like-minded individuals. That website address, again, is wwwgarethmichaelcom.

Speaker 1: 21:55

Now let's get back to that episode, shall we? Well, even when we get into the healing, like you're just saying, we talk about some of the emotional triggers that happen, that we're all running from the emotional triggers because they're unpleasant and we don't know what to do with them. And so then, especially in the work that you and I do, people come to us and they talk about how do I stop these triggers? Well, the goal isn't to stop the triggers, just like the goal isn't to stop the running and it isn't to stop the triggers. They're both those things that are pointing to what we need to look at, that are pointing to what we need to look at, and that is, I think, what gets missed, because it has become so natural to avoid and to stay away from some of these topics.

Speaker 1: 22:44

We think the symptoms are the problem, instead of understanding that's just the warning sign or that's just the light bulb coming on to say, hey, have a look at this. And that's where it gets so misconstrued. You know the amount of people that say to me that they want to work with me, they don't want to deal with it, they don't have to go to the emotions. Okay, sure, I don't know how that works, but we can try that. But you know, that's just the nature of humankind, that's just how we've been taught to deal with all of this, instead of being able to walk straight into it when we're ready and when it's time for us to do that. So that's what's really huge about it. And knowing that we avoid the triggers because we know there's something deeper underneath it that we have no idea how to even look at.

Speaker 2: 23:40

And I think that's where it's understanding the running instead of actually believing for a second that the running is ever going to stop.

Speaker 2: 23:47

And I think it's that most things that trigger us in this lifetime is that if we had been taught or shown this from a young age, it wouldn't be as big of a problem as it is for us now. Never mind the people making false promises that as if the running could stop someday. But really the only day the running stops is the day we take our last breath while here in this particular body, because the journey has been done with the things that we were meant to explore and meant to understand about ourselves in this lifetime. And that's a very different journey for every single person. But, as we've said, it's that this journey is about each individual exploring self in their own unique way. Neither person has it right or wrong, but just the way they're simply meant to experience it.

Speaker 2: 24:27

So I think, when you turn the idea of running on its head a little bit, that it's not something that we're trying to stop, it's not something we're trying to turn a blind eye to, but it's actually a journey inward, and all of these different things along the way, as you said, are like signals on guidance in its own way, about the areas that our system wants us to explore. So it's about turning towards ourselves instead of the learned way of not being allowed or not being able to look in about what's going on. So, like most things we talk about, you always have to start small, so what would be the advice that you would offer someone who can identify with what we've been talking about in this episode that they've been running their entire lives? Where could that person begin if they want to understand what's funding their run?

Speaker 1: 25:14

Well, I think one of the first things is a bit of that recognition of you know, we've been running away from everything that is inside of us, that we're, you know, whatever it is, I mean, and it's so multi-layered as we've just got through saying. But the very first step is to realize the answer lies within. So, as you said, we've got to turn it on its head and start to run towards us and towards what it is we've been afraid of. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to jump in and deal with the biggest issues first. It just simply means we're going to start very small and go oh, wait a second. How can I turn and start to meet me? And what do I need to be able to turn and meet me? What kind of support do I need? How am I going to find that support? And even if it's just acknowledging an emotion and holding that acknowledgement, feel it, experience it, identify it, name it. That's a great start.

Speaker 2: 26:19

I love that one and the reason why I love that one is because the idea of any of us going back into our childhood and actually exploring the different negative experiences, the traumatic experiences, the things that we might have some awareness, that is funding this run, nevermind all of the things that we have currently are not aware of in the conscious mind, that's stored in the subconscious mind. I think it's that we have to first of all build a relationship with the emotions, because if we jump straight into those experiences, it's always going to be too overwhelming, it's always going to be too much. Even if someone who's been exploring it for decades and years and so experienced, it can still be too much for that person to have to go back there and to explore that part of them. So I think it's actually the baby steps and the small steps where you can start to educate the mind and get comfort. It's actually understanding the roots of fear itself for every person to be breaking down each of these negative emotions.

Speaker 2: 27:10

And there's so much amazing material out there now that we forget we can get our hands on to that wasn't available for us to get access to. It wasn't the local library 30 years ago. It's that now there's so many people that have dedicated their lives to allowing the material to exist to educate our logical mind on fear, on anger, on shame, on guilt, on our ability to control and escapism and confrontation and pain. Because when we have a solid foundation of all of the things I just mentioned there, then it's we're more willing than to actually go to the experiences itself. Because we have a foundation of okay, now this isn't as scary as it would have been without this information. Now it's still going to be challenging when it comes to having to do that journey, but it's about how do we make it, one step at a time, easier, because each step does make a huge difference in our ability to process it, instead of running away from it once again.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Well, one of the things that I find amazing and it's a great exercise for our learners and you'll find out exactly where you are on this journey if you sat down and made a list of all the emotions you experience in a day. Now, what's interesting about that is the average person knows three or four emotions and they rely and put everything in those categories and they might fall in those categories, but there are different emotions and, as we talk about different layers, there's different layers of emotions and there's different types of emotions. And then I would even challenge you further is the minute we say make a list of the emotions that you're aware of, notice how many of those are what you put in the negative basket, and then how many positive emotions do you experience on what you deem as positive emotions on a daily basis? And you might find yourself very surprised at how few that you're aware of, because we do so much of that categorizing and so, like you said, that is that first small step. There's so much richness in just starting to explore that.

Speaker 1: 29:20

And when you start to explore that, like you'd be surprised how many times when I talk to people when I say okay, so if you don't want this, what do you want? And they cannot even identify that because they've been swirling around in the swamp for so long that they don't know what's outside of the swamp. Long that they don't know what's outside of the swamp. So that is, I think, for all of us. Once we have those emotions, like you're saying and like you just said before, then if we're going to delve into any of the stuff from the past, at least we have a reference point, yeah, as to how we can identify what it was and have the understanding of what it was meant to teach us yeah, because now we have, uh, we're running.

Speaker 2: 30:06

We're running in a direction instead of in circles.

Speaker 1: 30:09

Yes, yes, very much so. And I think as you go through that practice, gareth, learning to name those feelings. And here's a beautiful thing Go on the internet today and there's 50 million different emotion wheels that will tell you all the different emotions and you might be surprised how few you have in your vocabulary and how can you expand that. But then it's about really being able to name it. And then the final well, not the final, but one of the bigger things is, as you start this journey, turning around facing yourself instead of running away, doing it with kindness and with compassion, because we've been taught to do it with expectation and get to that final result instead of going oh I'm so sorry that you've been running away from that for so long, I'm so sorry you felt so misunderstood in that for so long, because our first thing is to turn around and criticize ourselves and create something else to run from. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 31:14

Absolutely. It's constantly funding that and it's always become so much bigger in our heads and what it actually is. Because you're saying we've just never had the know-how of how to do it, but we've always known what we don't want, as you mentioned, versus what we actually do want, and a lot of us secretly do want to understand these things going on beneath us. But when you have nothing but people around you who don't talk about it and don't want to explore it and can't explore it, you can see how this can go on for decades in any of our lives, of it just continuing to build with time before life once again brings it up right into our faces and goes now it's time and I think the other thing to be aware of as you're on this journey as I'm sure most people who are listening to our podcast probably already know is once you turn around and you start facing some of the things that you've been running from, knowing that you're still going to be running on some levels.

Speaker 1: 32:06

But your world changes in the fact that the more you understand your journey, the more you understand the process that you've been through, how you're looking at the world starts to change, and that landscape changes with the people that you have closest to you, which is a natural process.

Speaker 1: 32:27

But for so long we have seen that as a negative, and so we wonder why it is. People come and go from our lives and we want to blame ourselves or blame the confrontation, or blame the situations, instead of recognizing that those level of awarenesses have just changed. And so, therefore, as the universe does on such a polite level, it always brings you new people to play with on a different game field. You know, I remember when video games first became available and we'd play these and it was so basic and simple. Then you'd get to the next level and it'd get a little bit harder. But now you look at the video games that are out there, and it's just mocking what we do in life, basically, and so you're equipped with the idea of what it's going to look like. It's just how do you apply it to yourself.

Speaker 2: 33:29

So I think that's what's interesting when we're talking about running and all the different steps we take towards understanding why that is so important for any of us in our day-to-day lives and having a self-compassion, understanding that it is the human experience and not being so hard on ourselves. And then when we understand our fears the only way to begin to understand our fears is actually to show it with more kindness and removing any of the shame that comes along with that. And it's really that when you're in the present day and understanding that, you see how running has evolved and changed in many different ways throughout our lives, as we're talking about the start of the episode, so even though we might be running from something very different present day than when we were 30 years ago, is that you can see how they're all linked in different aspects of the life or the lessons or the understandings that we still don't quite fully grasp or understand about ourselves.

Speaker 2: 34:25

And I think sometimes is that we have to find that self-compassion towards ourselves, especially when we do realize that we are running from something. Because even when we have that awareness that we are running, it doesn't mean that we're actually allowed by the energy at times to take action in the ways we would like to or what we would want to. And I think it's that, as we've talked about in many episodes before, is that even if we are in a relationship that we know is not healthy, might be abusive or toxic in some ways, it's easy for someone else to have input and say just leave, just walk away, stop running away from your problems. Everyone has an opinion on what you should be doing or what action you should take now. But you and I both know it's actually never been that simple and that's a very different kind of running, if you know what I mean. Because even though you're aware that you're running the fear patterns of anything, you're actually not running away from the situation because you're quite self-aware that you're living in that toxicity, you're living in that abusive relationship in this current example.

Speaker 2: 35:17

So I think it's that we have to have self-compassion at times of understanding the fears that are present and we can run have that self-awareness at times of understanding the fears that are present and we can run, have that self-awareness. But that is actually the journey of us growing a relationship with all of the above to be able to actually take that action that we might be aware that we have to take at some point, but we can't fake that action until it's actually time for it to occur. So I just think we can be very hard at times to say, yeah, I'm running away from my problems, but we both know that's not always a simple choice that we're just making on an ongoing basis.

Speaker 1: 35:50

I couldn't agree more, and that is what I think the conundrum for so many people is is trying to work out whether they're running away from it or whether they're staying in a toxic situation. You know, just to try and understand. But, as you and I both have said so many times in the past, what's for you won't go past you and you. You know if, if you aren't able to leave for whatever reason, you know whether that be a friendship, whether that be work, whether that not just talking about personal relationships there's a good chance that we haven't gotten the wisdom that we're supposed to gain in that particular situation just yet, and so it isn't always just a simple choice of that's it. I'm out of here. It just isn't, and you know, I think that part is so hard to help people understand. But again, once you've turned inward, if you're really listening, you know the moment.

Speaker 2: 36:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:51

You become aware of the moment that it is time if you are meant to walk away from something, and then you can look at it as not running. You know, and the example I use all the time is my marriage. I know I overturned every single stone to make that marriage work. A lot of people thought I should have left many years earlier than I did and I couldn't. But the moment I knew I had gotten the wisdom that I was meant to get, I knew then it was time to end the marriage.

Speaker 2: 37:21

And I think what's something I might say here this might be a little bit controversial, but I think it's only when you've been through it maybe you can apply it that sometimes staying is listening to your intuition until it's time to actually leave, told by your intuition in a different way, because people think staying is you not listening to your intuition, where sometimes staying is you listening to your intuition because you're actually not allowed to leave just yet. But that can be a very confusing thing, I just said for people, because you know it feels like a super huge contradiction actually to what your intuition is telling you.

Speaker 1: 37:54

Well. So, for example, when I first started to realize that the marriage wasn't going to work, I wanted to leave because I was demonizing him and I was focusing on all of his faults. I couldn't leave because of my own fears, my own insecurities. I didn't think I'd survive. I didn't want that to happen for my kids. As that evolved, because I really want people to have an understanding of how this works. As that evolved, I was like fine, I'll work on myself, as I do with everything, fighting it and kicking it. Okay. Then, when I got to that point, when it was time to leave, it was no longer about him. The understanding was completely about me. And also I got to then gain, you know, the wisdom of why that whole relationship needed to happen for me in the first place. So it was almost as if it came and did a complete circle and had tied itself up in a nice little bow for myself. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 39:00

It does.

Speaker 1: 39:00

It was like the intuition give you the insight that one day you would leave, but it just wouldn't be now yeah, yeah, and that was frustrating because everything pointed to I needed to go, but I couldn't do it and even in that I was beating myself up, as so many people do.

Speaker 1: 39:17

But when the intuition came that now it's done, there was a completely different outlook on the whole relationship and there was gratitude on one or two levels not on all levels at that point, because it's emotional thing that happens, but on one or two levels there was gratitude for the relationship because what it had taught me about me.

Speaker 1: 39:41

So hopefully that doesn't make it quite as controversial what you had said, because when you have a real life example to understand it, I was amazed the very first time I knew that that marriage wasn't going to work. Did I have any understanding that I had made a contract with this person to help me learn to stand up for myself? No, I did not. And while I was demonizing him, there's no way I could see that this was about me learning how to stand up for me and find my own voice. But by the time I left I had found my voice and it wasn't screaming and yelling, it was very quiet, but it was very certain and that is what makes the difference, I think, and if you can have that, you can walk away then with a completely different outlook and it doesn't become the war that sometimes these things become.

Speaker 2: 40:31

But I think that's why it's interesting. When you explore all the different things that we have been in this life, running from our relationship with those components where the growth has come, and no matter who you ask, it's like. Or if you would say to someone I know you're running from that and it's like, yeah, that and 200 other things yes, like you just pointed out, one of many. But I think everyone has those different elements with us because as long as there's going to be fear as part of the human emotion, there's always going to be something we're running from that's eventually going to catch up to show us something for us to grow from, and then we put that down or we visit that at a different stage in life and we go again. So we finish it with that time in our lives, we put it down and then we most likely revisit in a different stage in our lives.

Speaker 2: 41:17

So I think this was really interesting about this whole concept of running and this idea that we've all been taught, especially in spirituality or transformation, that our lives are meant to be peaceful 100% of the time and the running has to stop. I've yet to meet one person where it has been that simple or that easy or that realistic in their day-to-day lives. So I think it's when we have conversations like this, where I know, when I started to think of it this way, through many different teachings and through michael, it'll it give me permission to actually have a deep breath so it gives me permission so I don't have to have it figure out all the times.

Speaker 2: 41:54

Running from different elements is actually quite a normal thing. It's part of the human experience. I don't have to feel have a terrible relationship with fear. I don't have or is spiritual enlightenment feeling no fear at all. And I think people get caught up in this. And when you're just experiencing the of what it means to be human is that we can put these unrealistic expectations or pressures on ourselves and it's never enough. But when you begin to understand that that is just a part of the human experience that we're all here to have and we begin to understand that it's amazing the new kind of relationship we start building with self and with life itself, I couldn't have said it better.

Speaker 1: 42:28

I agree 100% with that. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, then you might want to check out our online community. We built it to offer you the comfort of having a supportive community by your side, no matter where life takes you. Connect with like-minded individuals through our app. Navigate each step of the journey together with us by joining our Gareth Michael community. Here are a few of the things you're going to get. You'll get exclusive real-time access to live recording and events. Advanced access to each new episode. The opportunity to ask questions directly of Gareth and I. Input into what topics we cover in the show. Access to exclusive content not available anywhere else. To learn more about our community, please go to wwwgarethmichaelcom. Thanks again, and I hope you guys are having a lovely week.