Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast. We are so excited to have you on this journey with us, where we explore all elements of mind, body, emotions and soul through the lens of everyday life.

Speaker 2: 0:29

Hello Kim.

Speaker 1: 0:30

Hello Gareth.

Speaker 2: 0:31

How are you doing this morning?

Speaker 1: 0:33

I am okay this morning. You know me, I don't believe in fibbing.

Speaker 2: 0:42

I think our listeners are really starting to get to know you too.

Speaker 1: 0:47

I've just had a very busy week, so it's nothing more, nothing less than that, just a busy week.

Speaker 2: 0:53

So for this week's episode, I wanted to talk about love, but like everything on this podcast, it comes with a twist.

Speaker 1: 1:01

I know you're just going to shoot love right into the ground, aren't you the twist, I know you're just going to shoot love right into the ground, aren't you?

Speaker 2: 1:08

To a point For this topic, the angle is going to be when love isn't enough, and I think we would have talked about this on certain episodes before, but not as its own topic like this. So when we go through life and from a very young age, we're taught a lot about love from movies, cartoons is talked about a lot.

Speaker 2: 1:28

And we accept a lot of certain behaviors from people because we feel love is there or because we love them, so therefore it justifies certain things. Sometimes in life, as I'm sure a lot of our listeners have experienced, it can get to a point where love isn't enough to justify how someone or people are treating us in our day-to-day life. So that can be a very harsh lesson. So we're not necessarily shooting down love. Love is a beautiful thing. Love can come in so many different forms, in so many different ways, but I think sometimes we haven't been taught that we can still love someone and have to walk away sometimes.

Speaker 1: 2:06

Is that it's also what we've been taught love is, and so our conception of love sometimes is based in things that isn't really loving, and some people might not even know that, and so get into relationships. We think we have a certain amount of love for somebody, and then, as we start to grow, we might see that what we thought was love wasn't actually love as well. I think that's just an important part of it.

Speaker 2: 2:38

Because I think even in a recent episode in this season, we talked about being young and naive and in love and not knowing any better and thinking that love can cure everything, and there is elements of that.

Speaker 2: 2:53

That, of course, can be true, but it's also that when you're with someone for an extended period of time, as an example, it's that both individuals can change and evolve so much in their time together because, yes, they experience things together but also separately, and we both know that not everyone in this world has been shown or taught how to walk through their experiences, their trauma.

Speaker 2: 3:16

That have been really defining moments for both individuals, together and separately. So, naturally, as both individuals evolve and change, so too does, then, the definition of what love is, or the person you fell in love with, or the idea of the person that you fell in love with at the time in this life that was going to unfold over many decades to come. But sometimes that reality doesn't come into fruition as we once thought it, and I think that's where even expectations, conditioning, all of these things can play in for both individuals and family members, et cetera, into our understanding of love and how we find ourselves in certain maybe abusive behaviors at times, or manipulation, and that's why it's an interesting topic to talk about is okay. When is love not enough in a relationship with family, with friends, even if it's an interesting topic to talk about, is in okay. When is love not enough in a relationship with family, with friends, even if it's you love your career, you love your craft?

Speaker 1: 4:10

it can be covered and apply to so many things in our life I agree completely with what you just said and the worst part about it, and I think the reason that I struggled as soon as you finished saying it is because I've had a lot of experience myself with that in a couple different areas of my life, and so one of the things that I think people don't understand is you can love someone very much and you can be in love with someone, and if you are not able to communicate and you have unhealthy ways of communicating or you're not being honest in your communications which is one of my bugbears it can lead to so many unresolved misunderstandings, leads to codependency. It can lead to a lot of different things. For example, so many people come together and they trauma bond and they call that love. It's crazy how we communicate what we're feeling and not like we brought up in our other episodes about the maps of the world.

Speaker 1: 5:11

If we're not clear on each other's maps, it can lead to a lot of misunderstanding and along with that you might have goals, but if your communication is missing, then you're not going to be communicating those goals and those dreams in the same way that you would have if you were on the same page. And so, having had this experience in my life, you know that thinking and I was a diehard love is everything and then starting to realize well, love, I think love is everything. It just doesn't mean it's what keeps a relationship together, whether that be a working relationship, a friendship or a romantic relationship, because there's. Sometimes it's just not healthy and I know that sounds strange to say that love is everything and sometimes it's just not healthy, but sometimes that is the truth yeah, and sometimes we can find ourselves saying it's like I love you, I just don't like you right now, which?

Speaker 2: 6:15

can be true. I think we've all found ourselves because you can't just break the love away and just, you know, delete it. But it's like I, you, but I just don't like you right now, in this moment. And that even can be effective communication, if we find ourselves even being able to say that.

Speaker 1: 6:31

Yeah, that's true, it's true. And so how are people? So, if we're going to talk about this, how are we supposed to resolve this idea that, even though love is everything, sometimes love's not enough?

Speaker 2: 6:45

See where I would think I would start with this, and I know everyone's going to most likely sigh and probably predict. What I'm going to say is that, as we often talk about on this podcast, when exploring any of these topics, it always comes back to self. So, yes, when exploring any of these topics, it always comes back to self. So, yes, we have been taught or shown what love is by the external world, by family, by friends, by society, which is all true and fair. Okay, this doesn't mean it's all right and it doesn't mean it's all wrong either, but when it comes back to learning how to love self, that can really redefine what love means to the external world, then, and how we navigate it.

Speaker 2: 7:27

So a lot of this journey always brings us back to self, but in the meantime it takes love, sometimes heart ache and heartbreak, to actually bring us back to ourselves, to actually start redefining what it means. And that's not a journey you can fake. That's not a journey you can often plan on a human level. It's just something that naturally unfolds and, yeah, it stings, it hurts when it happens, but it always has brought us back to ourselves and even, as you mentioned in previous episodes about your marriage and when you divorced your partner, it's that that was a whole journey for kim and understanding who she was and, and I think anyone who's went through any kind of relationship breakup or divorce they can say the same thing in the journey that has brought them on of understanding themselves better. But it's a lifelong journey, I want to say, when it comes to self love and learning what love means internally to be able to share it externally, and it continues to evolve and change, to be able to share it externally, and it continues to evolve and change.

Speaker 1: 8:30

Like in learning to love myself, there were many times when I could see some of the toxicity in the relationship. And you know, I think it's important to point out that you can love somebody, but really not like the toxic behavior. And then, as you're starting to learn how to love yourself, you recognize the fact that just because I love this person, I don't have to put up with the toxic behavior. That is not really the idea of growing and loving. It's about, of course I'm only going to work on me, and that's one of the things that happened in my marriage.

Speaker 1: 9:02

My ex was not interested in working on themselves at that point in their lives, for whatever reason, and so you know, of course I love him, but I couldn't continue to live with him or that toxic behavior or the toxic pattern of loving each other that we had gotten into, because I'm sure it didn't feel good for anybody at that particular time. And I think that's what we forget. You know we get, especially if we're of that mindset, like I was. You know that love is everything. Then you think, well, I should be able to work through this if I love this person Instead of recognizing. No, the true love is when I'm loving myself and I go. It's not okay to treat me like this.

Speaker 2: 9:47

But I couldn't agree more because I even think, say in some real life examples, as you said, when people have those toxic traits or patterns or don't want to work on themselves. But then we also look into, say, when people have addictions and the family loves them, the partners love them, them, and there's something else consuming the person, and it's a really you don't, you can't walk away, you don't want to walk away, you love the person, you know they're struggling, but yet being around those patterns and behaviors, it's toxic to be around because they're they're not themselves, so to speak. In those moments and I think that's a very practical battle that a lot of people find themselves in throughout life of I love them, I don't like who they become in these scenarios, but I also don't want to walk away because I love them.

Speaker 1: 10:34

Yes, and that becomes very difficult and having worked with drug and alcohol for a long time, I would say real love would be walking away at that moment because that's the only way that person is going to be able to reach the point they need to. But it's so counterintuitive to everything that we feel in our body makes it so difficult for the person.

Speaker 2: 10:56

But I think in you saying that's probably going to surprise or shock a lot of people in some ways because, as you said, it's so counterintuitive to what's going on within us.

Speaker 1: 11:04

a lot of people in some ways, because, as you said, it's so counterintuitive to what's going on within us. It is so, you know, and I don't mind sharing like when I was 17 and my father said to me you know, you have a problem, you need to either get help or get out. And I was like, okay, I'm going to get out, because I didn't really believe. I had a problem at the time and you know, I hated and resented that man for many years for that, because it created a lot more struggle in my life and he gave me a choice. But I hated him for giving me a choice. I mean, it was really an ultimatum. Anyway, I hated him for many years for that.

Speaker 1: 11:40

But then, once I finally got clean and started working on myself, it was like holy cow, that was pretty much a big act of love. Then I had children and I was like, oh my, that's real love, you know, and working with alcoholics and addicts and I used to have to say this to family members, and it is counterintuitive. But I can guarantee you I wouldn't be sitting here today if he hadn't given me that ultimatum, and that's what I know to be true, and so it's an interesting thing. So is that love? Is that not love. In my version I say that was real love. He loved me enough to go. This behavior isn't okay.

Speaker 1: 12:22

And you need help.

Speaker 2: 12:24

But a young Kim. Her version of love, her map of the world of love was completely different at that time.

Speaker 1: 12:30

Yes, completely different, but those are some of the hard case scenarios that they're. You know, in working on myself and looking back at it many times I think, gosh, that would have been hard for a parent. Gosh, talk about unconditional love. That doesn't sound like unconditional love. You either get help or get out. But it was unconditional love. It was saying I know you have more in there and I'm not going to sit here and watch you kill yourself. So I think that's what people don't understand when we say love is everything, because love is that hard aspect of it at times.

Speaker 2: 13:08

Yeah, because I think sometimes the approach can be love is accepting any behavior and allowing anyone to do anything because you love them.

Speaker 1: 13:18

Yes.

Speaker 2: 13:19

And it's a very one-dimensional view on love. It's part of that, but that's not the whole answer, and that's why I think it's important for us to talk about this, just to open people's perspective on what is love to them and in what ways throughout their life has love put them in tricky positions where they've had to have certain conversations, make certain decisions or even give those ultimatums that your father had to give you at that stage, because it's only through experiencing that on both sides that I think we can actually see how complex love is.

Speaker 1: 13:56

And I think some of the stuff that we see on TV really does an injustice, because, you know, we get so conditioned that people can work things out in 15 or 20 minutes instead of recognizing that there can be some really complicated issues when it comes to this. Yep, and it's not just as easy. As you know, I'm in love with this person, so therefore you know like you can love someone very much and neither person's needs are getting met in that relationship because your maps of the world are different, or you're at different stages of your growth, or you've learned what you've meant to learn with that person and another step of love is stepping away, and that's just very hard. You have to be pretty emotionally mature to really get that, I think.

Speaker 2: 14:45

Which I think 99% of us on the planet are not.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Well, I didn't insult you guys, he did. I said us.

Speaker 2: 14:55

I included us, not 99%. You see what I did there when you listen back to this episode, you can see I said us. I included us in that 99%. You see what I did there when you listen back to this episode.

Speaker 1: 15:04

You can see, I said us.

Speaker 2: 15:09

But I think what's also interesting about this kind of love and I would love to hear your perspective on this, kim is that I think when we fall in love with someone, so to speak, and we build a life with someone or individuals, is that, without realizing it, and if we don't have that emotional maturity that you talked about, or we don't have that support actually questioned to dive into these things, we can sometimes, I think, confuse love with fear, and what I mean by that is that I love you, but what I'm really feeling is that I'm so fearful to leave because I don't know what life's going to be if I actually leave this relationship, this marriage, this safety net, this comfort zone.

Speaker 2: 15:50

So I love the predictability of this, so I love you, but really it's like the fear so strong that it's easy to stay in the love that. I know that may not be healthy or what I want, but that can be. Yeah, I love you because there can be a lot of per se loveless marriages, if you want to put that there, or relationships or family dynamics, but really, if you were to dive in there, there's a lot of fear more present than there is the love emotion quote unquote, so to speak now. I know there's some grandiose statements, but you know what I'm trying to get out here.

Speaker 1: 16:22

Well, I haven't got a clue. Of course I know what you're talking about. I love how you always pick these topics. It just kind of like who needs to write a book. Just come listen to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 16:35

You'll hear all about my life a book.

Speaker 1: 16:40

Just come listen to the podcast. You'll hear all about my life. No, but I think that is a very, very true statement and, as I've said in the past and I'll repeat again now I used to, before I was married would say if certain things happened in a marriage, that's it, I'd be out of there and those things would happen to me and I wasn't out of there. There and those things would happen to me and I wasn't out of there. And then, when I absolutely knew like I can remember the point where I knew I loved my husband but I knew I didn't want to live with him anymore, I didn't think that the marriage was going to work. I was absolutely scared, like I had been a stay at home mom pretty much most of that time.

Speaker 1: 17:15

I hadn't been in the workforce for quite a while. It was, you know. I mean I had been in the workforce, but in small increments, and you know I had three kids that I was putting through school and there was a lot of factors in that, not just mine, you know, because I know that when I finally got to the point where I thought I was ready, then he wasn't ready at that point and so then he had to go through his process of getting ready, and so what it did for me is it made me realize it's never as cut and dry as we like to think.

Speaker 2: 17:50

Never.

Speaker 1: 17:51

Never, ever. And you know there's a lot of factors that bring it into. Some of those things that play into that, you know, like our financial struggles or the expectations of different families, the different family cultures that happen. And then crisis. You know the family can have a crisis. One person's working their way through it and the other person might be stuck and that creates that whole situation where I can speak honestly for myself. There was a lot of fear and there was fear of providing for myself. There was fear of what would happen for my kids. For a lot of people that fear is too strong to overcome.

Speaker 2: 18:34

Let's take a step back from this week's episode and share with everyone what we've been up to behind the scenes.

Speaker 1: 18:39

We're really excited to be able to finally offer the Gareth Michael community to each of you. The community offers a range of benefits, including access to our live events, weekly podcast episodes, articles, self-checking questions, as well as a community of individuals you can connect with and interact with along the way. It's designed to offer you support, guidance and a safe space on a day-to-day basis. We'd love to have you join our global community of like-minded individuals. That website address, again, is wwwgarethmichaelcom. Now let's get back to that episode, shall we?

Speaker 2: 19:22

But I think that's exactly why it's a good conversation for us to have, because it's real life, because I do think sometimes in a lot of material that we listen to or read out there, it's an oversimplification of a very complex reality and I think that's why it is so confusing to navigate internally and mind body emotions from past, present, as you said family, friends, colleagues, culture, society, religion, this just there's so much and we've all been brought up really not understanding ourselves or how to actually be confident or to love ourselves enough to do what we know we need to do.

Speaker 2: 19:58

But even when we know that, it doesn't mean that's actually enough to get us to do that for ourselves. So much you have to take into account, and I think we can find ourselves saying, oh, when the children are 18, then I'll do it, or when the children are 16, then I'll do it, or when this happens, then I'll do it. And that's understandable, because I think we've all done that in our own ways throughout life. But we keep changing the goalposts on ourselves because the emotions are so strong and there is that hope at times within us that this will just go away or it'll get easier if we ignore it long enough.

Speaker 1: 20:33

And sometimes there's the battle of whatever the religious culture you've been raised in and what the expectations of that culture is, and if you have been raised from a small child, for example, I was raised Irish Catholic. Now, I was not a practicing Catholic at the point my marriage hit the point that it did, but what happened is, you know, there's that barrier. Wait a minute. I took vows. I said that I was going to love this person till death. Do us part, and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1: 21:10

And I will say that I have some sincere interest in finding out from people, because I've often spoken to people of an older generation who have stayed together, who have gone through some of those hard times, have not really liked each other, not really been in love with each other, but stayed, worked through so many things and then that caused their bond to grow deeper. And so I often, especially when I was going through this thought is that what I'm meant to do? And the very first time I thought I needed to leave, I stayed. For that reason I thought I've what I'm meant to do, and the very first time I thought I needed to leave, I stayed.

Speaker 1: 21:42

for that reason I thought I've got to work through this with somebody, but it became the more that I worked on me, it became more increasingly clear that wasn't the case, but I think it's an interesting dynamic because we are torn by so many different factors. Because we are torn by so many different factors, we might put the label love on it, but there are a lot deeper things going on underneath that word than just love. So I think one of the things you know, following on from that, we need to talk about is how do we sort through that mess that we had labeled love that starts to look that loving mess.

Speaker 1: 22:19

That loving mess, that we started out with one belief system and then now we're starting to see things differently, because it doesn't always mean ending the relationship. True, we all have these different journeys for different reasons, but I think sometimes it's about recognizing that as we're growing, as we're starting to mature, we need to put certain boundaries in place and whether that person can respect the boundaries and setting limits on how far and what love really does mean to you. So, for example, I know that I was a people pleaser and I also know that the type of love I had was what we would call codependent, which meant if you showed me you were okay, then I was okay and then I wanted. It was like a barter system. Is what codependency is I'll do this for you, but you got to do this for me, instead of doing it because you want to do that.

Speaker 1: 23:19

And so having boundaries and understanding that aspect of our life becomes very important when it comes to how we actually enter this relationship, whether that be at work, whether that be with friends, because it's you know, just because we've been friends since we were kids doesn't mean we're meant to stay friends sometimes, and that's a hard thing for people to face. I think that's the key thing I would say is, when you're starting this journey, look at those boundaries, look at how you feel respected or you don't feel respected in the relationship and what needs to shift inside of you. For that because it's not about looking at what needs to shift inside the other person I think that's often part of the journey that was trying to change someone else first before going I love you, but I need to change everything about you.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Yeah, if you could just do this different, that would be great.

Speaker 1: 24:22

Which we've all done that to, and I'm owning it. I'm not saying that we're innocent of that.

Speaker 2: 24:28

We've learned our lessons on that front.

Speaker 1: 24:30

But we have these sayings out there that love conquers everything, right? Or if you really loved me, you would know what I need triggered I shouldn't have to tell you she should just be able to read my mind, before you mentioned another one, you should say trigger warning you know, it's all of those conditions that we put on, which are, you know, unhealthy.

Speaker 2: 24:58

Yeah, but I think it's that when we don't know any better and we've lived with it for so long, or we saw our parents, aunts and uncles, or it's just, we normalize what we've been exposed to because it's like this is what love is. So when you haven't experienced it being any other way and it's like, oh, they must love me because they haven't left me yet, or they put up with my x, y and z.

Speaker 1: 25:28

It must be love, right? Okay, I get it. I've been that one each to their own.

Speaker 2: 25:34

I'm not saying it's not love yeah but this is why it is a very individual thing to explore. But in exploring that, as you said and as we talked about earlier, it always brings you back to self. And having that emotional intelligence and understanding what we're calling love, is our fear present? Is there other other emotions present? What is that triggering in us from our past? And so there's so much work to do within ourselves, without ever having to make any big life decisions right away or immediately, because, you said, it's not always about ending a relationship, ending a marriage.

Speaker 2: 26:11

That's not always the result that's needed present day. It's always an option. From the moment you're married. You could leave the next day if you wanted. It's always been on the table. But I think it's that it's understanding that that for anyone that's been in that position or is in that position, there's something inside changes that suddenly says I need to explore this, and I think that's where self-love is reborn in a completely different way. And the reason why it happens in that moment that you can't force, you can't control or you can't even predict, is because you needed to do that journey with the love you understood up until that date in time, because if it wasn't any other way and using you know yourself, kim, as an example you wouldn't have had the three wonderful kids that you have and you wouldn't have had the experiences that you had.

Speaker 2: 27:00

So we're saying it's not all negative, because it's not certain things were meant to fold exactly as they were, but, as you do that, so many things throughout life continue to be redefined that allow you to explore longer term exactly when it's meant to unfold. So love is just a part of that, and I think in part of that, maturing is understanding that I can love myself and I can love you as an individual and, however, I am not putting up this behavior anymore that's abusive to both of us yes, very much so, and and the same goes for it's not quite as heavy, part of it is.

Speaker 1: 27:39

but our values change and so we might find, as we're working on ourselves and we're doing this inward reflection, that all of a sudden what used to be really important to me has now shifted. And I think the biggest joke I like to say about my marriage is on the day I was getting married we had a conflict about my spiritual journey, and at that time I was still somewhat a practicing Catholic, okay, and my ex was a self-proclaimed atheist. So that was an interesting thing to start the marriage with.

Speaker 1: 28:17

I don't practice any organized religion and he's very much into organized religion and I'm saying that with jest because I don't have any resentment to it. I did it first for a while. Our values change as we grow and as we're doing this journey inward, we start to see things differently for ourselves and we can't have the expectation that the person we love is going to share those same values. You know they may or they may not, but that is part of this process. That happens. You know. It almost makes people think maybe I shouldn't go on the spiritual journey.

Speaker 2: 29:01

It's part of the process too. It's just part of the process. This wasn't the journey I was sold on when I started, but it's the one I'm having.

Speaker 1: 29:10

Yeah, but attached to that as well is as you're growing and learning about loving yourself, which I prefer. I do still think love is everything, but how I operate in that love is everything is different, because now it's about loving me, and that isn't that arrogant, self-centered or whatever way people think when they hear I'm loving me. But I have finally learned how to have a relationship with myself, and in that not only have my values changed, but my level of emotional intelligence has changed, and so I'm viewing the world in a completely different way, with a completely new map. And if my partner which was true at the time wasn't on that same sort of journey at that time in his life, that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. It just means it wasn't working for us. It is now a running joke in our family that my ex goes to church every Sunday. We all think it's a big joke and I mean I'm happy for him that he found that.

Speaker 2: 30:17

Yep, if it works for him, that's great.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Yeah, it just was funny how those ships crossed and never really kind of hit at the same time is the point that I'm trying to make.

Speaker 2: 30:30

As you were saying. It just goes to show how much people change and evolve throughout their life to find the ways that work for them. So that's where it's fascinating. I think, a curveball I want to throw at you. What would you say to people who are potentially, as in this example, in a relationship? They love the person, but they're waiting for the person to change. And the person is saying they will, they promise they'll get to it, but days, weeks, months, maybe even years go by.

Speaker 1: 31:00

Well, this is. You know, I'm going to be very honest with you. This is where I really started to put into practice the whole concept of spiritual contracts, because I was that person waiting for that other person to change. And I think, when it comes to the point that you have changed so much, even if the other person has decided they want to change or are going to change, the distance between each other may be too great by that time. And that's what you really have to look at. You have to look at how distant do I feel? Yeah, I think it's. You have to go through that stage, but you have to have the emotional intelligence enough to go.

Speaker 1: 31:49

Is this really going to happen, or am I just kidding myself? Like you said before? Am I sitting in the fear? These are all the things that I ran through. Am I just staying because I don't think I can make it out there? I used the whole thing of I'm staying because I wanted the stability for my children. You know, I didn't even think the kids were going to be necessarily better off, but I knew I didn't want to do the financial rocky show that was going to happen. I had a whole list of rationalized ideas as to why I couldn't leave. Whether they were all valid or not doesn't matter. I wasn't meant to leave at that point.

Speaker 1: 32:24

But I can say this when you do love yourself enough, you will know the moment will come and you'll go. It's like a little light switch gets turned on inside of you and you go. Okay, that's it.

Speaker 2: 32:38

And for me there was no anger, there was no screaming, there was no yelling, there was just like yep, it's time and there's such strength that comes with that in that moment that, as we've been talking about in this episode, you cannot fake there's no false start.

Speaker 2: 32:53

It's that when that happens, you just know, and I think sometimes in the spiritual contract say, if the partner is not willing to make an effort, is not able to make an effort in communication and wanting to work on themselves, I think, sometimes over an extended period of time, that's the energy's way of telling you that your journey with one another, as you would have said in your own ways before, is coming to a close in this form, because we both know that, even for, say, when you have kids with this individual, it's that you're always going to be part of each other's life.

Speaker 2: 33:23

You know, in moving forward, especially when you share a family and, however, I, in moving forward, especially when you share a family in, however, I think the energy has interesting ways, the universe has interesting ways in showing us that, yes, that was the case for a period of time in your life, but now we're going to make it that you can't communicate, that you aren't allowed to work on the things for one another, you can't hear one another, because it forces each individual back into themselves, for to start a new chapter in their own individual journeys.

Speaker 1: 33:50

That is exactly what happened. You're saying that and I'm sitting here smiling because I'm like, yeah, I could remember at one point, towards the very end, thinking how is it that I can have lived with someone for over 20 years and not find a single thing to be able to speak to them about? I just found that fascinating, but we just couldn't communicate. At the end, full stop. And that's what you're just saying. And as you're saying it, I'm remembering searching to find something to talk to this person about and not being able to.

Speaker 2: 34:28

And I think that's the interesting way of our own individual journeys and energies they take it away piece by piece and give it back to ourselves to find ourselves, how to communicate with ourselves, how to love ourselves. And I think it's only when you go through it, or in the process of it, and even years after the fact sometimes, that you actually see why it unfolded exactly the way it did and, as you would say, and as you mentioned earlier even in this episode, it has worked out for you, it has worked out for your ex-husband, you know, everyone is exactly where they're meant to be. So, even though there was most definitely I have no doubt very difficult and hard moments for you both on for the family, the perfect result did come out of it in the end for everyone involved.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 35:15

But, as most people know, when you're going through it, you don't believe that's what, what is happening, and so that is why I think if you are working on yourself and this type of thing is unfolding in your life, that's where you have to seek the additional support Absolutely. I could not have gone through it in the manner that I went through it without some of the really healthy support I did have, because I had an intention, when I knew I'd gotten to the point where the marriage couldn't continue, that I wanted to walk away, in kindness and in decency and doing my best to respect. Of course I was hurt, of course I was angry, and that was all part of it as well, but I wanted to walk away so that I didn't fall into the trap of thinking I hated this person.

Speaker 2: 36:03

I think I learned, as you said earlier, love is everything, and there's parts of that statement that I do truly believe in.

Speaker 2: 36:09

I think love is very important in this life, but what this journey has taught me thus far is that I have to love myself 51 of the time and and everyone else can have the other 49, but that one percent is the difference, sometimes, of being in a abusive relationship or not, or not seeing things or the patterns or behaviors you need to see, or having blind spots. It's that 51% of the time. I need to make sure that self-love is deeply present within myself, that I have that strength that we talked about earlier to challenge certain behaviors when necessary, to go out and be my own person. And, yes, I will happily share that other 49% with the rest of the world, because I do think love is very important when it comes to any of our healing journey and how we engage with one another. But I think to see it at its full capacity for what it can be, we always have to start inwards and then once again work our way outwards.

Speaker 1: 37:01

I couldn't have said it better. That's a very true statement. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, then you might want to check out our online community. We built it to offer you the comfort of having a supportive community by your side, no matter where life takes you. Connect with like-minded individuals through our app. Navigate each step of the journey together with us by joining our Gareth Michael community. Here are a few of the things you're going to get. You'll get exclusive real-time access to live recording and events. Advanced access to each new episode. The opportunity to ask questions directly of Gareth and I. Input into what topics we cover in the show. Access to exclusive content not available anywhere else. To learn more about our community, please go to wwwgarethmichaelcom. Thanks again, and I hope you guys are having a lovely week.