Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast. We are so excited to have you on this journey with us, where we explore all elements of mind, body, emotions and soul through the lens of everyday life.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Hello Kim.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Hello Gareth, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:31

I'm doing good. How are you doing this morning?

Speaker 1: 0:33

I'm doing okay this morning.

Speaker 2: 0:35

I have a question for you.

Speaker 1: 0:37

Sure.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Are you feeling motivated? Oh, that's such an interesting question hint, hint, the topic of this week's episode I can tell it's going to be the topic of this week's episode.

Speaker 1: 0:56

You know I've just come off of a few days of feeling unwell, so no, I am not motivated at this moment let's see can we turn that around by the end of this episode. Sure, let's hopefully we can, let's do that.

Speaker 2: 1:09

So for this week's episode, we're going to be talking about motivation and sometimes why we can feel unmotivated, because I do think that is a universal experience we all go through, but it's never talked out, like many of the topics that we discuss on this podcast, and I think there might be some interesting angles of having that open discussion of why we go through that experience as human beings and maybe what are some of the hidden messages behind experiencing that itself.

Speaker 1: 1:35

Okay, so basically you're saying it's not just laziness. Is that what you're telling me?

Speaker 2: 1:40

Not all the time. Okay, you have to add some wiggle room. Sometimes it might be laziness, but no, not all the time. Okay, you have to add some wiggle room. Sometimes it might be laziness, but no, not all the time.

Speaker 1: 1:48

Okay, I'll be interesting to hear this episode because it will probably light up some bells for me. So let's talk about why, on our spiritual podcast, are we going to cover lack of motivation or feeling unmotivated.

Speaker 2: 2:04

Let's just dive right in, okay. So I think, when it comes to either being very motivated or very unmotivated, there's pros and cons to both sides of it, because when you see somebody's incredibly motivated, incredibly driven, of course that can be a thing you want to support and encourage in people, but then we've all seen in different ways how that person could be running from a lot also, or trying to prove a lot of things to the world around them and to themselves. Okay Right, and then you're going to have someone who's incredibly unmotivated, but they could also have a lot of trauma and difficult relationship with themselves, with their mind, their emotions, their body, and therefore they're actually not able to get into a space to be motivated for themselves, even in things they know they should do or need to do for themselves or the people around them. It's very hard to understand. Okay then, what is the middle ground?

Speaker 2: 2:54

Because I think everyone in their own way experiences moments or periods of feeling motivated or being motivated, and then, of course, the opposite also. So I think it's that when we're feeling extremely motivated, it gets to a stage where that person turns to burn out in some way in mind, body, emotions, which life? That's life's way of getting us to address or look at certain things from our past or things going on in present day, and or if we're feeling incredibly unmotivated and we keep repeating those same cycles, that's life's way of also telling us that change is also necessary in a different way, to explore self also. So I think both, in their own unique ways, get us to look at certain areas of our lives and to create change present day. That is needed.

Speaker 1: 3:40

Okay. So in that you spoke to quite a bit for me, in the fact that I would say 90 of my life and the motivation in my life has been a driving factor, is what what I would call it. So it's what's got me out of bed in the morning, it's got me what's going, uh, and what was behind that? Sometimes fear, sometimes trying to prove myself, sometimes the trauma sometimes, but it was definitely a moving away energy and moving it became moving towards something. But I would say, when you have been using that for a long period of time, when you stop using that, it's a very big pendulum swing. Personal experience here.

Speaker 2: 4:30

Yep.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Which I don't know if I've recovered from the other side of the pendulum yet.

Speaker 2: 4:37

I feel like it's like a swinging wrecking ball. It is like a swinging wrecking ball.

Speaker 1: 4:43

That is exactly what it feels like, Gareth.

Speaker 1: 4:45

And I mean we can laugh, but that is what it feels like, because it used to be not a problem for me to be motivated, but it was what drove me, you know, and I think it was probably more fear driven than anything else. Yes, but now that that is not there, it's like I can't light a fire. If my life depended on it, I'm sure I could, but you know what I'm saying. It's like it's very hard because part of what's going on and I know you and I are going to talk about it, but I know I've been through the emotional burnout and I do feel like I've done a lot of the work on the emotional burnout the drive is not there anymore, and I think that scares people. If the drive disappears, what then motivates you?

Speaker 2: 5:33

Well, I think, depending on the person is that if you're not extremely motivated and you're not extremely unmotivated and you're somewhere in the middle, you could argue you're actually at peace, but that scares people because they've never been there before, there before, right. But yeah, we're still on this journey of growth in this lifetime because you and I talk about on this podcast. So much is that, as long as we have breath in our body, we're here to grow in some way, shape or form. So I think, as we were talking about, if you take any individual in different stages in their life, when they're extremely motivated or extremely unmotivated, it's all excuse my language a big mixing pot of crap in there, depending on where that pendulum actually swings. But depending on where that pendulum is, exposes us to a whole new world of experiences as an individual and exposes us to different people along the way that have a huge impact on our present day and the people we end up becoming.

Speaker 2: 6:24

So I think you can honestly say that from a spiritual perspective throughout looking back on our own individual lives. But I think what's interesting about it is that trying to understand and listening to our the language of our mind, body, emotions, present day, to understand why it is present today in the way it is, let it be being extremely motivated, unmotivated or kind of like yourself and in between place, or what is the message here? And how do I run and grow with that? And I think that's where a lot of us are at a loss, because even when we're willing to explore it, it kind of feels like the message is being kept from me even when I'm trying to look for it right?

Speaker 1: 7:01

yes, yes, most definitely it feels like that, and so I think it's very interesting for people who are going through it, because if I wasn't as aware as I am and done the level of work on myself, I would probably just think that I was very lazy or depressed or something was really wrong with me if I was feeling those feelings, whereas I know that, okay, this is a period of something that's going on. I need to pay attention to what that is and how is that directly affecting what I meant to be growing from in this moment?

Speaker 2: 7:40

So I think it's amazing in all the different ways we can weaponize being motivated and non-motivated to run away from self Absolutely. So the point is we can say we're so motivated waking up tomorrow, but we're busy doing all the wrong things because we're avoiding the growth we know we need to do that's going to challenge us and actually force us to face some of our fears or to actually have certain conversations. Or the other side of it is that if we're feeling depressed, don't have an energy, want to avoid, then we're also not necessarily growing in that sense either and we're shutting ourselves down. So it's never ceased to amaze me with people I've worked with and in my own life, of how creative we can subconsciously get in our own ways to avoid the areas that we need to grow in. So therefore, I think it becomes an interesting place to be like if I'm questioning this now, in this time of my life, of why I'm either motivated or unmotivated. What are the potential things I'm actually running away from not looking at? And it doesn't mean diving into all the emotional stuff, but I mean, just as a logical thing, to begin questioning are there certain things that I know I'm avoiding, or I know it's not working, or patterns or behaviors that no longer excite me or are not doing anything for me, and have I actually sat with myself to say, okay, can I take ownership of that? Or just look at it for what it is.

Speaker 2: 8:56

It doesn't mean trying to have all the solutions of creating all that change overnight. You and I both know that's not how it works, but so often we get caught up in just the day-to-day runnings of any of our lives. We're just going from a to b to c to d, week to week. So I think it's actually the first step is to take a step back and, I think, try to take ownership. Why is our system presenting it in this way now? Is there patterns or familiarities of when this showed up previously in my life and where would the changes have happened then that actually evolved it into feeling more motivated or neutral? And the reason why I'm saying that is because you and I both know with human behaviors and patterns, they tend to repeat many times throughout our lives. So even if we might be under very different circumstances today, the ways in which our mind, body, emotions actually communicate with us doesn't change and evolve all that much, but our interpretation of it can, as we continue to grow throughout life.

Speaker 1: 9:54

What I would like to say to that is I think there's some key common factors that we need to talk about when it comes to this lack of motivation that you're talking about, and of course, for me it's always best to break it down in, you know, using my life as an example, because it just makes more sense to me. So if we're talking about emotional depletion, I can say quite honestly, throughout my life, because there was so much fear for various reasons, that there was a lot of emotional depletion and a lot of unmet emotional needs, both in childhood, from the exterior sources and also throughout my life, from myself, not even knowing how to meet those emotional needs that I might have needed, you know, or how to get support for myself or how to be connected, for lack of a better way of saying it. So that's one of the things that could bring out. Then from that always bleeds on the burnout factor. So for me I would be like a bull in the China shop. You know I'd go at it so hard for so long that physically, my body would just want to stop. You know it'd just be like I can't. Or if I did stop, that's when my body would get sick, because it would be like I'd push so hard for so long. And I can even remember one of the one of my first teachers saying to me you know, one of my first teachers saying to me you know, it's not about pushing the wheelbarrow uphill, it's about stopping and finding out what you really want to do. But I didn't know that, I was just constantly in the push forward mode.

Speaker 1: 11:37

And then, of course, you know, as you and I both talked about we always talk about how we all have that negative self-talk that it's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes it can be a good thing, but most people don't have a clue what to do with that if they start to even recognize it. And then, like I said at the very beginning, one of the other factors comes down to that fear and that overwhelm. So I can tell you as an ex-addict and I say this all the time when I hear people say it what's the point? I go, oh, that's a war cry of an addict, for sure.

Speaker 1: 12:15

Because it's like you feel like you try and try and try and try and try. You get nowhere. So then you revert back to that overwhelmed. Well, I don't know what the point is, because I don't seem to be getting anywhere. And that's just a few. Those are just some of the major ones that come up for me when we've talked about this over the years, and it is breaking them. But all four of those things are the four things I've listed. Breaking them down and finding out where we each sit with each one of those, if not all of them at the same time, is what I was going to say.

Speaker 2: 12:50

Yeah, and I think that's why it is an interesting topic, because it's such a large spectrum to cover of why anyone can feel motivated or unmotivated or anything in between.

Speaker 2: 13:00

And I think that's what's interesting, especially when you're on that journey of at a certain age, we start exploring self and questioning, because the reasons which a lot of us were motivated or unmotivated come down to what we've been exposed to, maybe some of the traumas that we discussed there that people can experience. But then when we're following that playbook of life, of what's expected from us, a lot of us are just following what we think we have to do. And therefore, when you get to a certain age where you're starting to question this playbook isn't working for me and we feel like we have to do more and more, then it comes up I'm having a midlife crisis. Why am I not motivated? Why there's something missing? So then it does force us back to actually have to question this playbook we'd all been taught to follow for such a long period of our lives.

Speaker 1: 13:47

I couldn't agree more with that, because that seems to be a huge thing. You know, I know in the circles that I've run around in, we've often said we've been sold the Cinderella story or we've been sold the success story. You know, both being different but the same in some ways. The Cinderella story is, you know, I'm going to grow up and meet my Prince Charming and everything's going to be wonderful and I'm going to have get married and have 2.5 kids and my life will be fantastic. Or I have to get out there and be a success and if I get to the top of my career and then I'm earning X amount of dollars and I can provide for my family and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then that's when I'm going to be successful and happy. And I'm not saying that they are not formulas for success for some people, because some people will do that and will be very happy, but I would say the majority of people.

Speaker 1: 14:39

that is where they find themselves questioning quite a bit.

Speaker 2: 14:42

But when the shoe doesn't fit.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Yes when the shoe doesn't fit.

Speaker 2: 14:45

Yes when the shoe doesn't fit, that's when you know you're in trouble and because, as you said, it does work for some people, it doesn't work for everyone and that's a really hard pill to swallow when you've invested so many years of your life into trying to make that shoe fit and you only end up ever really hurting yourself and sometimes hurting the people around you unintentionally.

Speaker 2: 15:07

But that is a part of the experience I think most of us have been through in different times in our life in different ways.

Speaker 2: 15:11

So I think for a long time a lot of us were motivated to fit in and to try to be normal and try to be accepted, and that only really takes us so far before we realize actually this isn't feeding us internally, in which we were told how it should, and that's where a few different worlds start to collide because, as you were saying, what we were told versus it actually being compared to our experience of that reality is two very different things. So something's not adding up and we all have buried that fact for a period of time. But then it grows legs. So I think that automatically affects our ability to be motivated or not motivated, because we can get more motivated to run from it faster and bury ourselves and do more stuff, or we can, more unmotivated because we're depressed or we're leaning into certain addictions or we're trying to shut ourselves down in some ways. But you don't hear many people talking about that middle ground of actually. What does that mean for self on this journey?

Speaker 1: 16:17

Well, I think that's the bigger part of it. When I started waking up to some of this, just the reality that that's not what life was going to be like, was depleted by motivation in quite a big ways. Because it's that depletion of the emotional hope and and uh, I've been working so hard for this and now this isn't going to happen. Or you know, it's one of the things I talk with some of my clients so much about. Is we get to a certain age and we go wait a minute, I don't have the white picket fence. Or I have the white picket fence and I have the husband and I have the kids, or the wife and the kids. Why am I feeling so bad inside of myself and why does it feel so hard to get up and go to work every day when I have what I'm supposed to be excited about? And I think that can be. That's the emotional depletion in itself, because there's so much confusion around waking up to some of these things that we're talking about.

Speaker 2: 17:18

But once that clicks in your brain you can't go back. Like a lot of the things we talk about in this podcast, like once it resonates it it changes everything, but yet we don't have all the information to know how to enact it. So we kind of feel like in a no man's land, especially when we have been running these patterns of behaviors for decades of our lives and especially when the people around you or that you're with on a day-to-day basis had that hasn't clicked for them in the same way it just clicked for you.

Speaker 1: 17:43

That's challenging can be very challenging, so how?

Speaker 2: 17:46

can that be motivating? It's not. That's not talked about.

Speaker 1: 17:51

It's not. And then there's the factor of and I'm not putting down anybody's family, but I think it's really important. We grow up in a culture and, depending on the culture that we grow up in, there's a certain level of expectation. Let's just say you're raised in a family that have two workaholics. Well, now you just grow up naturally thinking that's what you do is work all the time, because that's what a successful person is, if that's what your model was.

Speaker 1: 18:20

And then you start running some of those negative narratives if you don't want to be working all the time, because those people that we grew up with seem to really enjoy it and seem to is the important factor here, because I don't know if anybody really enjoys working all of the time, because it can be very addictive or it can be a running away thing. Some people do enjoy it. I'm just saying, when you get to that phase where this stuff is starting to show up and you're starting to question yourself, it's amazing how negative the narrative can get and how quickly the emotions feel burnt out because you haven't ever been dealing with them, you don't want to deal with them, and now we're looking at changing the fundamental belief system that we grew up with? And how do I do that? Because that seems impossible.

Speaker 2: 19:14

But I think that's what's interesting about it is that we're motivated until we're not and what I mean by that is that was what I was saying earlier is that it's like you were happy in your marriage until you weren't Kim. When we were motivated for that period of time and it made sense for us we were going through, that was the journey we were on with the experiences we're meant to have with those people. But what a lot of us struggle with is that when change comes around, of when we start feeling unmotivated and it brings up these emotions, we often don't know what to do with that, because all of a sudden we're now running off this playbook that we've been trying to run with and then we're confused because it was like wait a second, but this playbook worked for a while. So maybe this just is a phase I'm going through that I can bury, amongst other things but this is my point is that when we're motivated, it's an indicator of what's going on in our lives and mind, body, emotions.

Speaker 2: 20:08

When we're unmotivated, it's an indicator of what's going on in our lives and mind, body, emotions and the people around us. But when we don't know how to read those indicators, of course we're going to feel lost, and I think that's when, like any of us, we push ourselves into extreme positions or into extreme extreme cases in hopes to find a resolution of some kind, but actually just ends up putting us through more traumatic experiences and putting more stress and strain on ourselves and the people around us. So you can see why people are confused about the basis of understanding what motivates them and what stops them from feeling motivated or just at peace in life.

Speaker 1: 20:48

Well, I also think the confusing factor. I agree 100% with what you said, but I think the other confusing factor that happens and I state this all the time when I'm working with clients a lot of our belief systems, things that drive us, were formed when we were very young, and so we're trying to operate off a system that worked when we were, you know, five, six, seven, eight, nine or 10, you know, and we were witnessing what we thought were our parents being very happy or our parents not being very happy.

Speaker 1: 21:22

So we're either shooting for that or trying to move against that, and we're thinking that, because we started this quest at such a young age, when we get to this point that you're talking about and we don't know how to read the indicators, we're completely lost because it's like, well, now what You're telling me, that everything that I learned prior to this is no longer working. So how do I make anything work if I couldn't even make the simple thing work that I witnessed growing up? And I know I myself have felt that at times in life. And it can be very confusing because you're like, well, I know we're all working on a spiritual journey here, but it can get very confusing. And how do you find that which is going to shift that? How can you start to shift the belief systems? How can you start to move into a new modus operandus that is going to work for you? And how do you even begin to find that for some people, it's in admitting that the current system that we're running isn't working.

Speaker 2: 22:29

Why?

Speaker 2: 22:29

Because life's already been trying to tell you in your own way for an extended period of time.

Speaker 2: 22:34

Now, now, and that is why.

Speaker 2: 22:36

Then you see, in any of our systems and we can all look back in our lives and have examples of this, of when there are the mental symptoms, the emotional symptoms, the physical symptoms and I know you'd mention a few as well but when we lose interest in a lot of different areas of life that we used to bring us a lot of joy, and even that is with our partner, with our kids, with our career, with the basic of hobbies that used to actually fulfill us in some way, if it's suddenly becoming so much work in every which way, that is our system trying to give us information about ourselves that we don't know how to read or recognize, as we were talking about.

Speaker 2: 23:12

But then, as you mentioned at the start of the podcast, was even the physical symptoms of feeling fatigued or restlessness, or just a detachment or a heaviness in the physical body. I think is actually we just feel weighed down about basic day-to-day tasks, no matter what we do. We just can't seem to shift it, and then I think this is the one that most people are gonna is the emotional flags that come along from it, of just the mood swings and irritability and not really feeling connected to anything or anyone.

Speaker 1: 23:41

And I think it's really important to say here that what a lot of people in our modern society think that we need to do if we hit any of these things you just spoke about is they want to throw the baby out with the bathwater Okay, well, it must be my whole life. I need to get divorced, change my life, I need to do an eat, pray, love, blah, blah, blah. I need to throw it all away and start fresh again, and that is not what we're saying. You know, these are basically like warning lights. If this is happening, then we need to go deeper within ourselves.

Speaker 2: 24:13

Yeah, and we're also not saying this is all just to do with motivation, as well, right right.

Speaker 2: 24:18

We're just saying how this is multi-multi-layered, depending on the person, and this is why it needs the respect and it deserves such. It needs to be explored. It's an indicator, I think, in practical, day-to-day life although there's a lot more going on underneath the surface that we were never taught how to recognize and then, even if we do or are able to recognize that we were never taught how to recognize and then, even if we do or are able to recognize that we don't know how to deal with it or how to start that journey with it, and that's a very scary and intimidating process for any person, especially at the start, because, again, very few people welcome change with open arms very few, very few. And even when you recognize life's all about change, you're still met with resistance, no matter how long you're on this journey. But I think understanding these indicators and now being able to enact some of these small steps that we're going to get into can be incredibly helpful. It's about diving into it, understanding it, being more patient with it and creating space for self.

Speaker 1: 25:21

Yes, and knowing I think we have to put the other caveat in here of knowing that there can be a fine line. Like you said, it's multi-layered, it's not just about motivation that if some of those things are happening for you and you are looking at it and not finding an answer, of course you want to seek outside help because it could be an indicator of other things. But for this particular conversation we're just talking about the motivational side of things. And so then, you know, I'd love to say it's like oh well, the smoke alarm went off. All I have to do is hit the button and stop it and say false alarm and move forward, if it's ever that easy, you know. And so it's not just a switch. We're going to flip and that we're going to be back being motivated.

Speaker 2: 26:07

Yeah, but I think that's what's interesting about any area of our own lives is that when these indicators come up, it's because that's our system telling us oh look, there's something new here to learn about yourself. Yes, and this is why it's happening. So, and that doesn't go away, and nor will that ever stop until any of our last breath, and I think that if we had been taught that since we were two, it would have helped, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 26:33

It would have helped and I think, bearing in mind that whenever we're learning something new or exploring something new and I think, bearing in mind that whenever we're learning something new or exploring something new, we don't have the insight or the ability to do it very quickly, it's about, okay, this is a journey of really unpacking, finding out what it is that really needs to be looked at and explored and maybe start to have a shift in a different direction, if that's what's right for you, and that has to happen in little, tiny baby steps most of the time.

Speaker 2: 27:05

Yep, let's take a step back from this week's episode and share with everyone what we've been up to behind the scenes.

Speaker 1: 27:13

We're really excited to be able to finally offer the Gareth Michael community to each of you. The community offers a range of benefitsareth Michael community to each of you, the community offers a range of benefits, including access to our live events, weekly podcast episodes, articles, self-checking questions, as well as a community of individuals you can connect with and interact with along the way. It's designed to offer you support, guidance and a safe space on a day-to-day basis. We'd love to have you join our global community of like-minded individuals. That website address again, is wwwgarethmichaelcom. Now let's get back to that episode, shall we?

Speaker 2: 27:56

But it also happens as we talked about even in some of the previous episodes, kim that it is a part of our spiritual path into when these things unfold in front of us and are meant to explore it, and I think that's another reason to why we get very demotivated about our own lives is because our energy doesn't want us to add new experiences to our life for new people. When there's so much about what we currently haven't processed that we need to do the journey with, with the people around us or from our past experiences or traumas, that how, why would our system motivate us to add to that of which we don't already understand? And I think that's not saying that's the root of all way of why motivation is lacking. But I'm saying there's so many multi reasons to why our energy is asking us to do it now and not 20 years ago.

Speaker 2: 28:44

But this is where being able to understand the language of self and do that journey, you see, of why in any given year, any of any part of our lives, why the motivation fluctuates depending on our experiences or the things we're dealing with. Not dealing with taking responsibility, with not taking responsibility with you see where I'm going with this, but that's where there's signals that we've never been. It's a language we haven't been taught, so that's why we actually can't be angry at ourselves or the people around us, and thus we're having that little bit of self-compassion and, as you said, taking a little step at a time becomes so important to have patience, to learn about ourselves, because none of this has been taught to us, but that's where the growth is in it for us all.

Speaker 1: 29:28

And I think, the other factor to be aware of and which I didn't understand for many years, because I started getting clean and sober at such a young age and, of course, I wanted all the information then and what I didn't know. And I think it's so funny and cliche that we talk about midlife crisis. I don't really think it's a midlife crisis. I think it's kind of a midlife waking up period, and the reason for that is, you know, in my 20s, even though I wanted it all, did I have the emotional capacity to understand it? Had I had the experiences that I needed to have within myself and others, to have the patience to look within? Because at that stage I was still definitely blaming the without.

Speaker 1: 30:09

So there's so many things that go into it, and some people do start this journey earlier than others, and that's just because that's what's right for them. But if it's not happening at the speed you want it to, to understand that it is a process that we go through, and it is a process of unlearning and starting to know ourselves. Like if you had told me in my twenties I mean, the only thing I would have agreed with in my twenties when, with what the information that was coming at me was that maybe my spiritual beliefs were different than what my parents believed and that I knew that I could agree with that but if you were to tell me that I needed to change my work ethics, I would have said no, no, no, no. I can't do that. This is a core value. I've got to go. I've got to do it this way.

Speaker 1: 31:00

I didn't have that capacity to explore what was driving it at that point, and so I think that's one of the things that I'm saying that when our system does start to set off the alarms, and that we are starting to look at it, understanding that we're only going to be able to go as far as our emotional, spiritual and physical maturity allows us to in those moments, and then even that can be a challenge, because we're going to start to challenge some of how we've been operating in the world, what our belief systems are, what our value systems are, for a long period of time.

Speaker 1: 31:41

I don't think many people even look at that. They just have inherited different belief systems and values and believe well, this is going to work for my parents, of course, it will work for me, of course. This is what they taught me in school, so I've just got to go ahead and do it instead of going what really works for you, and I think that's a really, really big thing. And then, if someone has been running those negative narratives, not like me at all, the ability to have compassion while you're going through this learning experience becomes another one of those challenges, because we need to have compassion while you're going through this learning experience becomes another one of those challenges, because we need to have compassion.

Speaker 2: 32:22

But I think this was so hard about. Even what you're saying is that even when we know we should start questioning some of the things we inherited from our parents or we were taught in school.

Speaker 2: 32:32

It's such the forbidden fruit of what we want to ever ask why and, as we both, both know that brings up a lot of fear in ourselves and in other people. And then there comes the conditioning and there comes the change. And that is a huge undertaking and but that is the journey for a lot of people. But you can understand the confusion or the resistance and why, why the why questions are so forbidden? Because it automatically creates change and new understandings that you know are the making of any of us. But with that it does come with its own waves.

Speaker 1: 33:09

I'm just speaking for myself and what my journey had been. There's so many times when you just go, I just really, can I just go back to what I know, because that's easier, until you get to that point. Can I just go back to what I know, because that's easier, until you get to that point where you can't go back to what you know. And then it makes it even more frustrating because you're like, well, I can't go back and I have no idea how to go forward.

Speaker 1: 33:30

And so, and maybe that's part of that whole experience is, sometimes we just have to sit where we are, and that is an unfolding in itself. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 33:41

Not being motivated. Being motivated and being in the middle, I actually think, is a gift because it gives us the space to actually process. But when you don't know how to question what you need to be processing while in that space, it can become confusing, it can become purgatory yes, oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:00

That's a really. Maybe that's what they mean by purgatory we're not getting into that no, we're not, but yes, it can feel like that.

Speaker 2: 34:10

I can attest to that it's like the logical mind doesn't know where to go with it because it hasn't had the training, so to speak, of where do I go with this. It doesn't mean the experience itself is wrong, but that's what's interesting about the growth that's needed in that moment in time. But, once again, where does any of us go when I go to Michael, but where does the people go in order to actually question what is this about? Do you know what I mean? Because that's what we often talk about in any of these episodes. These are normal experiences we all go through in a given day and we all accept we all go through them, but do any of us talk to each other about it? It's not.

Speaker 1: 34:47

It's crazy how we don't. It's crazy how people are ridiculed or mocked, shamed or whatever words you want to use if they are going to someone to help them sort it out that there's somehow something wrong with you, if you would like to have some outside input as to how to work through some of these things that you've been banging your head against the wall for years on and haven't come up with a solution. But you wouldn't say that if you didn't know how to fix something, because I know today's society, you don't know how to fix something because I know today's society you don't know how to fix something. First thing they do is go to google and then they go to youtube and they're quite happy to get the health there from somebody else who's already been through it to find out what's going on. So why is it different? When it comes to our personal growth as well, you know, and if we could help shift that mentality, just in itself would be amazing.

Speaker 2: 35:38

Yeah, I think we should dive into where people should start if they are experiencing anything we talked about there, either if they are feeling extremely motivated, very unmotivated in certain areas of their life, or maybe there's an in-between purgatory place that we talked about is that. Where do we start in exploring that for any of us as individuals?

Speaker 1: 36:00

Well, you know, I know the first thing that some people would say is to lean on friends and family members, but I don't think I would recommend that, mainly because the first thing they're going to tell you is you're probably depressed, go to the doctor and get some antidepressants. And that might not necessarily be the case, but you do want to reach out and start finding some support somewhere.

Speaker 1: 36:23

I think that would be one of the first steps because, like we said, it is very multi-layered. We want to make sure that we're working on the right thing at the right time.

Speaker 2: 36:32

Yep, I think what I would say is that if we're becoming aware of that reality within us, it's our system preparing us for a change that is needed in our time, in our lives.

Speaker 2: 36:44

It signals that our system is telling us in mind, body, emotions in different ways, for multiple of different reasons. That is saying, can we please go explore this in a safe environment with experts, with information that's going to help make connections within ourselves to allow us to move forward and grow. That is why we're experiencing it in that way, because, as I said, there's pros and cons to being unmotivated and there's pros and cons to being extremely motivated, and to me, it's that, regardless of what signals are being sent, you have to understand why they're being sent and from what part of you is it coming from. Because I know, if I wake up tomorrow and I'm extremely motivated, there's a part of me that knows, five days from now, I'm going to be burnt out, because this is actually too much for my system. This isn't sustainable, right? So why am I suddenly ready to take on the world today, knowing my history four days from now?

Speaker 2: 37:40

good point this isn't going to be sustainable. So therefore, my system's actually trying to tell me something. Even though this feels good to be super motivated, it's like no one ever questions why they feel happy. It's like I'm just happy, so I'm going to enjoy it, but no one's like why am I feeling this incredible lightness and happiness today? But then the next day, if they're feeling down, sad or depressed, they're all questions of where this is coming from and how do I get rid of it.

Speaker 2: 38:04

So this is where it's about balancing the books, of understanding both sides of that equation, because you have that responsibility to yourself, but I'm not saying that any of those answers come naturally to any of us. So therefore, starting small and going to people that we can trust and who do have a level of expertise to be able to guide you in that process becomes very important, as we talk about often on this podcast. But I do think also, it's only when we have a level of routine I know a lot of us do have routines in our day-to-day lives of the disease that we have to do in a given day.

Speaker 2: 38:39

I think, actually, if we're talking about motivation in this particular episode, questioning what parts of the different tasks on on our, on our given day-to-day do we feel more motivated to do versus less motivated to do, and actually ask why is that? It's a very simple exercise and it can be about the simplest things of brushing your teeth, walking the dog, making food, like do I feel motivated or unmotivated or feel nothing about it? I just think it's important to question, to explore in the tiniest of ways, because they are the small wins of understanding self, understanding those signals and indicators that we're talking about in this episode.

Speaker 1: 39:18

It's not always about diving into the deep stuff from the past, because we're trying to make the communication with self on a day-to-day basis today easier, and that could be such a rewarding feeling for any of us but I think it's also questioning the times that so, for example, you have a goal or something that you want to reach and you find yourself motivated to do everything but that, and so you know that doesn't have to be deep either. It can indicate that there's a fear. It can indicate that you're moving in the wrong direction. It can indicate that you just don't understand the task at hand. It can indicate so many different things.

Speaker 1: 40:04

But until we start asking the questions as to why we're avoiding that or more motivated to do other things than this, will we ever find answers to what we're looking for? And then, I think, will we ever find answers to what we're looking for? And then I think, you know, Garrett, the other thing is that we've been taught not to do. Is, you know, really acknowledging and starting to give ourselves a pat on the back and celebrate when we do have the little wins that feel good, and I'm not talking about goals here either. Oh, you know what? I managed to do some self-care today. I actually stayed in bed an extra half an hour because I was tired. Let me just give myself a pat on the back here because I actually took care of me today. It's not an excuse to stay in bed all day. It's just that really celebrating oh, I've never done that before. It's really good that I can see I needed that extra 30 minutes of sleep. Whatever it is.

Speaker 2: 41:00

And wanting to actually question those different patterns or behaviors or routines that we have, even in the smallest of ways, is showing ourselves that we're curious to want to make those changes, or we're listening to those indicators. And it is by trial and error as well. If we know we're repeating the same thing over and over again, it's not giving us big, better results than just even the willingness to do something a little different and give it a go. That is a small win. And even you said, even if it is something about giving ourselves that extra 30 minutes if we know our bodies are depleted, or making more time for ourselves in a different way, or just having a curiosity to want to research a certain thing of why do I do this or why do I do that, or having questions to explore mind, body, emotions. By doing that, you're listening to the indicators of what our system is trying to send us and I always feel like our system does reward us or thank us in small ways when we actually take the time to do that.

Speaker 1: 41:57

Yeah, and I think the other point is just like with everything else in life, it's never full on or full off. It always comes with ups and downs. It always comes ebbs and flows, and that is just the normal rhythm of life as we're growing. And I think the key thing I would like to say, as someone who was extremely motivated out of fear for a very long period of time and also lived to very high expectations it's not a failure if the motivation ebbs at some point. It could be one of your greatest successes, because it might be the indicator that you finally turn around and learn something about yourself that you might not have ever learned if you kept going the way you've been. So it's never.

Speaker 1: 42:48

You know, I love saying that failure is the first attempt in learning, and so if you want to label it a failure, fine, but do it with that acronym in mind, that, oh, it's here to teach me something. It's my first attempt at learning. That didn't work. What do I need to change? What do I need to do differently? And then, how do I move forward from there? It's one of the key things I would like to say about it, because we are so used to beating ourselves up. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 43:16

And I do think it's important to emphasize what you're saying there, that it's not failure when we feel unmotivated or we don't want to turn up for life in certain days, when certain tasks feel harder than they did in the day before.

Speaker 2: 43:29

As I was saying throughout this episode, I do feel as though it is our system trying to get us to look at things from a different perspective or different angles. So when we're feeling unmotivated or in that neutral space, it's because our system is asking for, like, a time out of life or a break in order to give you a healing and processing time. But it's not your fault. You don't know how to question life or what you've been through when the energy or your system puts you in that space to process and I think it took me a long time to learn that and then, with that information, then, naturally, bit by bit, you stop beating yourself up, you stop being hard on yourself, you stop running that negative bias as much, and then, when it does run, you know why it runs. Yes, therefore, you can see the purpose of motivation and sometimes there are the lack of when it comes to this human experience or journey. So, like any of these things, when you understand why it happens. It can be the gift of growth when understood. Very well said.

Speaker 1: 44:34

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