Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast. We are so excited to have you on this journey with us, where we explore all elements of mind, body, emotions and soul through the lens of everyday life.

Speaker 2: 0:29

Hello Kim.

Speaker 1: 0:30

Hello Gareth, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:31

I'm doing good this morning. How are you doing? I am well, very well. For this week's episode we're going to talk about burnout. I think it's safe to say this is a topic that comes up in conversation a lot around this time of year or finishing out any given year. I think everyone sees the holidays, it's coming to the end of the year, people are trying to get basically to the finish line. So I thought it would be a very interesting conversation to have, but with a bit of a twist, if you want to say so. The twist being is that if you look at the normal definition of burnout, it's a state of mental, physical and emotional exhaustion caused by excessive or prolonged stress. So that's one of the official definitions of burnout, but in that definition it of course mentions mental, physical and emotional. But when it comes to the emotional side of burnout, I don't think it's talked out enough, if at all.

Speaker 1: 1:24

I very rarely hear it talked out. Very rarely do I hear anybody addressing that part of it, because they all think it's about the level of time they're spending working and all the to-do things that they have to do. Very rarely do you hear anybody talking about the emotional side.

Speaker 2: 1:42

So I think of course we're going to talk about the mental and physical as well, but that is something we're all familiar with, because we all think, oh, if we just get more rest, if I get another few hours of sleep, if I just, you know, get things off my to do list, then I'll be able to recuperate and be more energized and be ready for the new year. But it's not always that simple, because I think we've all had those experiences throughout the years where we have slept for days on end, when we had time off, but we just never seem to be able to get fully rested or to be able to go back to our peak and being able to perform in how, in the way we expect ourselves to, with those expectations of how we should be, in an ongoing basis. So I think it'd be really interesting to talk out what the emotional side of burnout and the effects that has on us in our day-to-day lives.

Speaker 1: 2:35

And I think it's interesting that if you do try and talk to someone about the emotional side of it, they immediately go to the fact that, well, they're not that emotional or they haven't had any big events happening to them. They don't see that their emotions have been up or down, and so they immediately dismiss it. Just like so many things about emotions in society, it gets dismissed so easily that they don't actually look at what some of the ongoing factors of that emotional side is.

Speaker 2: 3:05

Looking back on where some of these symptoms started in any of our lives, which usually goes back to childhood, and, especially if we are not able to have a relationship with our emotions, understand in what ways these symptoms actually appear in adulthood, nevermind childhood.

Speaker 2: 3:21

You can link it back to times in our lives we were feeling disconnected, unsupported, unheard, and that naturally has us suppressed a lot of our emotions and therefore we can't communicate as effectively to anyone, let it be loved ones, friendships, even to the people that we are going to for support therapists, coaches you find that there is a weight that comes along with us not being able to have a relationship with our own emotions and not being able to communicate effectively.

Speaker 2: 3:49

So of course, we can get into the symptoms of that which is some of the standard ones are obviously going to be any of the anxiety that we run depression, feeling hopeless, and then physically we can feel fatigue. Just feeling down affects our sleep, and I know we can go through an entire list and I'm sure everyone will be like that sounds like me and it's like, yes, the heaviness. The reason why it probably is relatable is because there's very few people from a very young age has been able to have an effective relationship with their emotions to allow them to be able to not experience burnout in this way.

Speaker 1: 4:25

But we also need to look at the factor that one of the key things that happens in childhood that creates some of the characteristics that you just described of emotional burnout is what I often find, and when I bring this up with any of my clients, they are absolutely. They fight it at first, and that is the unseen emotional neglect that so many people deal with in childhood. Because if you have parents that are emotionally unavailable, that is hard to describe as a problem, because they're there, they're making dinner, you've got a house to sleep in, there's a roof over your head, you're going to school, you've got clothes to wear, your parents are providing for you physically, but when they're not providing emotionally, all of the characteristics you just described that isolation, feeling unheard, feeling unsupported becomes natural, and so normal that we don't even recognize it as adults as part of the ongoing problem, because we just never have been hurt, we've never, no one's ever, questioned how we're feeling or we've been told not to feel.

Speaker 2: 5:37

Yeah, and this is why, as an adult, we have a level of responsibility to start educating ourselves and building those relationships with our emotions and it's not just the emotions that we're talking about.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Of course, you can experience the burnout physically and mentally, but in order to release the burnout full stop, you need to look at all three with equal respect and with equal cause in order to see how can we make longer term changes.

Speaker 2: 6:02

But if you're starting that journey of looking at the emotional element of it, that also means that there's going to have to be some internal work done and especially if we've never been shown that's a safe thing to do or even how to do it, it can feel like a very intimidating task because if we're looking at the relationship that we have with ourselves internally, and especially if that's uncomfortable, well, the reality is is that the relationship that we have internally often reflects relationships that we have externally, and let that be the relationships we grew up with, the people that were around us, our friendships, our partners.

Speaker 2: 6:34

They often reflect one another. So, as you were saying, if you've been around people from a young age who were never there emotionally for you, or you were never able to learn these skill sets, then you can't expect your relationship with yourself to be any different. Therefore, in order to actually help release that burnout, no matter how much sleep we get, there's more layers to it and that's why, even when we do what we think we should be doing taking time off, resting, more, eating well, if it just doesn't feel like it's ever enough, it's because it's probably more of the emotional side and we're lacking that ability to feed ourselves.

Speaker 1: 7:11

But then you also get into the argument with people like myself, who I wouldn't dream of it.

Speaker 1: 7:19

Who actually have formed such a habit of.

Speaker 1: 7:23

You know, we can use the word pleasing, or we could say doing as the norm, because that one especially if we're in that fawn process as a child, we are learning to please others for our survival technique, and then it becomes normal and it's I'm sure you've heard me say it very often that when I take time off, it feels uncomfortable to me to take time off.

Speaker 1: 7:44

It feels uncomfortable to me to take time off because I'm not achieving anything, and so I've been so geared to achieve that sitting with myself and that makes me think back to the very first time that you asked me to do that sit in silence and my body tried to get out of the chair 100 times. And these are things that people are not taught about. We don't even have any clue that that is a problem, because it seems so normal and it seems so productive that, of course, if we are achieving and producing, that must be a good thing, instead of recognizing that, yes, we may be doing that and yes, that may be bringing in financial gain, but it isn't bringing any personal gain. Is it bringing any satisfaction? Is it bringing us any?

Speaker 2: 8:33

peace. I agree with what you're saying and I think this is why it is an important conversation, because it is nice to be able to achieve those things and to work hard and to go after things you want. But I think the argument is is that it shouldn't cost as much as it does to ourselves, exactly because we weren't taught how to emotionally regulate. So if we were able to understand our emotions, express them and be better communicators about it, you can still go and achieve what you want to achieve and put in equally hard work. But we don't realize the cost of it to ourselves and it leads to extreme burnout, especially as the decades roll on. Yes Because you and I had a brief conversation before the recording that when you're young, so to speak, or in your teenage years and in your 20s, you feel like you have the energy to conquer the world Right, because technically you do.

Speaker 2: 9:24

You have the mental and physical capacity to keep up with how chaotic and busy life is. But then, as decades go on, when you're in your 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, the mind and the body naturally start to slow down, as it should. The emotional weight of 60, 70 years of experience of not being able to effectively communicate is also there, and the weight of that starts to slow us down in different ways and we are forced. When the mind and the body is not operating in the way we expect it to or in ways we think it should, then everything starts to get heavier on us right across the board. The body and the mind will always find creative ways, through different stages in our lives, to force us to have to deal with our emotions at some point. Yes, so we're not sitting here pointing fingers at our caregivers or our parents or our society or education.

Speaker 2: 10:16

we're saying they can't teach us what they didn't know themselves exactly but when our system is telling us the symptoms and there's it is affecting us in our day-to-day lives and when we are trying but yet we don't feel we're getting the results of what's been promised, then we have to go back to the drawing board and go. What piece of this am I missing? And, let's be honest, 99% of us have been missing that piece.

Speaker 1: 10:40

Yeah, I would say 99%. And not only that the ongoing effect of how we relationships and what our part in that relationship is and how we play that role, why we think we want something from a relationship, our behavior often shows something totally different and so therefore, we're left with those relationships and those connections that we have going well. When is it going to be my turn? Because we often are in that giving, giving, giving giving stage and with, of course, the honest thought that it will come back, naturally, because we think that's just the way it is. But yet when it doesn't and we don't know how to have the conversations because we haven't learned how to get our own needs met, we don't know how to articulate that to other people then the resentment and the just avoidance starts to build. And when the avoidance and the resentment starts to build, our relationships start to break down. That adds another layer of weight on it and it feels almost too hard to go out and have the relationships that we think we want.

Speaker 2: 11:49

Exhausting.

Speaker 1: 11:50

Yes, it is. Think we want Exhausting. Yes, it is, and so I think it's important for us to look at are our relationships feeding us or are they draining us?

Speaker 2: 12:02

The latter, well, most of them are the latter, and the reason why I say that is because when we don't have a relationship with ourselves, majority of us haven't had the opportunity to have a relationship with ourselves ourselves. Majority of us haven't had the opportunity to have a relationship with ourselves. Most of us tend to be people pleasers, as you mentioned, or constantly giving ourselves to other people. Then it is incredibly hard to find, often, a relationship in our lives that is balanced, where there is that equal give and receive. I do think, more often than not, relationships and friendships, they do deplete us more than maybe what we recognize, but because we've been so used to it, we can't see it.

Speaker 1: 12:35

No, we can't see it, and it's an interesting process, as you and I both have spoken about privately many times, when you do start to say no to some of the relationships that you've been giving, giving, giving and the effects and let's make no mistake about it that in itself is very stressful.

Speaker 1: 12:55

If you're not used to doing it and you start saying no, that is another extra drain on the system, because every part of your body says this is not the way I'm supposed to do it. I'm supposed to do it the other way. I'm always supposed to be there for people, and when we're saying no to that, then we add guilt and shame and whatever else that's been unprocessed underneath that on top of it. The good news is it does balance out. I mean, you know, it's just like when you learn anything new it's awkward, it's hard, it's confronting. But the more that you practice it, then you're starting to teach the people you're in relationship with how to have more of a give and take relationship. But unless we start that, if we're always giving, they're not going to. It's just that simple. And so that is also why it comes back to us, why it's important for us to recognize is this what we are doing, and how can we go about making those changes in our relationships?

Speaker 2: 13:55

Because for most of us, depending on the relationship that we're talking about our friendship or connection with family members we have been most likely suppressing a lot of our emotions for a very long time, and when we get into the habit of doing that for so long, the idea of opening up of course isn't very intimidating. But we don't often link what's happening, the symptoms that are happening to us is actually linked to the suppression over an extended period of time, and it does feel, as you were saying, too risky to step into that and to open up, because people get very defensive, very reactive, and that makes us often shut down even more, because it's like. This is why I don't do this, because we're already feeling burnt out, so the idea of opening up does not feel like it's going to refresh us.

Speaker 1: 14:41

No, it feels like it's more work than it's worth, and in the beginning there might be a little bit more work, but that is what's important when you are learning how to articulate your feelings and have that reverence for yourself. It doesn't mean and we're certainly not talking about going out and dumping everything that we're feeling on our friends and family.

Speaker 2: 15:04

Please don't do that.

Speaker 1: 15:05

That is not what we're talking about, but it is about having that equal exchange.

Speaker 2: 15:11

But it is about having that equal exchange and it's about respecting the other person's feelings while at the same time respecting your own feelings and your own emotions around whatever topic you might be discussing. But I think that's the first step, is having that honest conversation with self. No-transcript. So when you look at it in mind, body, emotions, it's about starting to have that curiosity.

Speaker 1: 16:06

But it also means so like the misunderstanding is, when we hit burnout, we think we need to take a vacation and we we need to rest and we need to do more self-care, which is all true, except for it's how we're doing that rest and how we're doing that self-care.

Speaker 1: 16:23

Because if we're doing self-care and giving ourselves a nice long soak in a bath or read of a book, and we're still not addressing the emotional needs, read of a book, and we're still not addressing the emotional needs, if we still can't say no every time the phone rings, we're certainly not addressing what needs to happen for us. And so that's why, as we've often said on this podcast, how important it is to pay attention to the physical, the mental and the emotional side, as well as the spiritual side, you know, because I think that's another whole aspect of burnout that gets completely overlooked. Because if you're not, if you haven't had the ability to know what feeds your soul and you're taking this time off and resting or doing all the physical work and you might even be starting to open up emotionally If you don't have something that feeds that part of you, that spiritual side of you, then that's just one more aspect that you're missing out on.

Speaker 2: 17:23

Let's take a step back from this week's episode and share with everyone what we've been up to behind the scenes.

Speaker 1: 17:28

We're really excited to be able to finally offer the Gareth Michael community to each of you. The community offers a range of benefits, including access to our live events, weekly podcast episodes, articles, self-checking questions, as well as a community of individuals you can connect with and interact with along the way. It's designed to offer you support, guidance and a safe space on a day-to-day basis. We'd love to have you join our global community of like-minded individuals. That website address, again, is wwwgarethmichaelcom. Now let's get back to that episode, shall we?

Speaker 2: 18:11

It's understanding that there is a reason behind why these experiences are unfolding the way they are.

Speaker 2: 18:16

And when we all if eight billion of us all have the mind, body, emotion, soul components, then each of those departments play a vital role in understanding self.

Speaker 2: 18:27

And I do think is that when you're on this journey depending on what you want to call that, your energy will eventually guide you and begin opening you up bit by bit, with the right resources, with the right people, and it's allowing yourself to engage in that as that unfolds, because there's a reason why I wasn't doing this 20 years ago.

Speaker 2: 18:46

There's a reason why you weren't doing this 20 years ago. This 20 years ago there's still like certain experiences that we had to go through with certain individuals in our lives at that time that were all leading us down a certain path for ourselves and for the eventual growth that we're meant to have. It's easy to look back in hindsight and understand why it was meant to be that way, but now it's that it's understanding that our energy is asking us to have a better understanding of all these different areas that make us fundamentally human and if we're not going to allow ourselves beginning opening of all these different areas that make us fundamentally human? And if we're not going to allow ourselves to begin opening up in those different areas, how can we expect our lives to get easier when we don't understand life itself around us and within us.

Speaker 1: 19:24

I guess the bigger question that's going to be asked by so many people is so, as I get often asked the how question how do I do any of that? How do I know if I'm doing that or if I'm not doing that?

Speaker 2: 19:43

When, the how or why questions begin appearing, if that's a clear indicator that change is necessary. And it's actually time for a change within ourselves for the right reasons. Because if we're asking that question, it's time, whereas for a long time, even if we were aware of that, we still had the opportunity to push away or to bury it, so we can no longer actually buy in to the story that we were telling ourselves before, because it's that it becomes unbearable or it's just I can't live like this anymore and let that be mentally, emotionally, physically or all of the above, quite frankly. But life has an interesting way of saying to us okay, it's time for a change, here's the opportunity, here's the things we're going to haunt you with to keep getting your attention, but here is also the resources, the people. It comes in waves, in the sense of when it's time for that change that we've been asking for, searching for, or it's just time for.

Speaker 1: 20:35

So if I look back on some of the things that I've had to address, you know, I think when it first came to discussing burnout for me, especially when you and I first started discussing it, I had no idea the emotional toll. It I had no idea the emotional toll and I would have fought tooth and nail on reclaiming what I needed in relationships because that was so foreign to me. So I think the very first step is recognizing is there balance in all your interactions with people? Like Gareth said, if you're asking these questions, it is time, but the very first step to doing that is all right. So is there an equal exchange? Am I feeling supported? Am I feeling heard in these relationships? And if I'm not, it's not about blasting the other person. It's about what in me has allowed this type of relationship to continue and to develop and what needs to change in me. It's never about focusing on the other people, like we said earlier. It's about okay, so what needs to shift inside of me to have more balance in these relationships. And that sometimes is where you definitely need an objective point of view to be able to. You definitely need an objective point of view to be able to see that in a different way. I would have argued till the cows came home about what needed to shift and what didn't need to shift and how it wouldn't shift.

Speaker 1: 22:04

And you know I'm very happy to report and I'm sure people have listened to this podcast over the years. You know my children used to talk to me about something if they needed something, and they would always preface the call with now, mom, you know you can say no and I'm happy to report. They don't do that anymore because they now know that I have the ability to say no. But for a long time if they asked a question, I would do whatever it took to get that solution for them. And it is really a huge weight off the shoulders to sometimes get a phone call, be able to listen to what's going on for those people and go.

Speaker 1: 22:40

I'm really sorry to hear that and that there's nothing to be done but to listen. So I think that's the interesting place for people to start to understand is that they can come back and see what's going on in their relationships, their connections, their relationship with work, their relationship with their own house. Are they driving themselves crazy to reach a perfectionistic point of view in life? And if that is true, then what's driving that? It's not about just stopping it, because because some people do like you know a very organized household and there's nothing wrong with that, but what's driving underneath it that we want to really look at and address how we can do that differently?

Speaker 2: 23:24

But I think that's what's interesting about your saying was also the challenge of that. Not only do we not know why the burnout is there, and then, even when we do figure out, sometimes the root of the problem, sometimes in the relationships, then we don't know how to have the conversation, and then there's the fears about what that will lead to, and then the ongoing exhaustion of the idea of it, because I'm already tired enough. So you can see why people avoid it so much and it's easier just to say I'm just tired. It's been a long week, a long month, a long life.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 24:01

And then you can also see why people do lean on their vices or the many pleasures in life in order to get through because it's easier to have that moment of immediate gratification with these different vices than to have to have these conversations that you could argue we were never allowed to have, trained to have or ever expect to have. But in saying that, this is the root of being able to identify and to learn those skills, Because if these relationships have got us to this stage of feeling this depleted and this burnt out, well it's only going to continue to head in that direction over many years to come unless there is some change created within self, by self, internally and externally, to give us that opportunity to try to reset and get balance.

Speaker 1: 24:54

Exactly. And so then it's about, as you were just saying, having an understanding of what that emotional attunement within self actually is. Because for most people that have been running a program like this for a very long time wouldn't have a clue what emotional attunement is, wouldn't know how to recognize whether I'm feeling emotionally supported or balanced or energized, and they wonder why they get excited about a project and then, as soon as the project starts, they go. I don't want to do this anymore, you know, and I agree with the vices that you said. So that is why, often, you and I both come back to getting to know ourselves a little bit better, getting to understand our emotions, understanding what's going on inside of us, because until we can actually tune into what it is inside of us and feel good about it, then we're just going to continue the cycles over and over and over again and we'll continue to blame oh, it's the end of the year, there's too much work.

Speaker 1: 26:04

I've, you know, I've had, I've traveled overseas, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah all those things that we throw in there. It's also, if we think about it, this is why, for years, we talk about people having midlife crisis, because they reach this point and they go. I just can't do it life this way anymore. But quite often they go out and they think it's something else that they're reaching for. Another person, another object, another goal. Instead of going, let me just turn around, bring that focus in on me. What would bring me joy on a daily basis inside of me?

Speaker 2: 26:42

I think what the interesting point you made earlier, though, is by taking a step back and looking at the different relationships or friendships within our lives, the people that we're excited to meet, feel energized by, versus the people that we, so to speak, have to spend time with.

Speaker 2: 26:56

That you feel like you have to take a deep breath before engaging in the conversation or in that time with them, but a lot of us don't really ever question what is it about that person, these individuals that make me respond in a certain way?

Speaker 2: 27:07

Do I feel seen, seen, do I feel heard? Can I open up and express? Or, with this person, do I feel guarded or do I have to shut down and protect myself? And then, when we weigh up the individuals that we talk in on a day-to-day basis and how many of these people do we feel guarded with and have to shut down versus the people we open up with is it actually balanced in who we're expected to be, depending on who we're around? I think you'll get your answers pretty quickly of what side of it you're on or why we feel so burnt out, and I think there's an interesting exercise to do, because a lot of us do engage with a lot of different people in a given day that'd be family, friends, colleagues and you can see quite clearly when you ask the correct questions of are we energized or do we feel burnt out by these engagements?

Speaker 1: 27:53

Yeah, and I just had another thought that, as you were saying that about, you know, for those of us that have been running that FON or pleasing program for many years, it's often about acceptance, and so we've been looking outside of our ourselves for acceptance. Yet how many people actually realize that's what they've been doing? And so therefore, when they go to start to look at this, where is that balance in that relationship? You know, I know in the beginning for me I felt like I was going to be dying if I had to not be entering the relationship or the conversation making sure. They felt okay, because that was the whole focus.

Speaker 1: 28:35

And so now to stop doing that and to really meet my own needs, that just felt so much harder than anything else I had ever done. But I didn't come up with that on my own, and that was after many years of working on myself before I started to recognize that I was entering relationships making sure. And so when the resentment started to build not their fault it was me who was doing all the giving. It was me who was doing all of the need for acceptance, so I would bend over backwards. Was doing all of the need for acceptance, so I would bend over backwards. So when it came time to stop that or to change how I was entering into the relationships, even that felt very awkward, to say the least when you come to that realization.

Speaker 2: 29:20

And then you were saying the bitterness that comes up towards the other person and the self-realization that we did it to ourselves.

Speaker 1: 29:26

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 29:28

That's a very tough pill to swallow.

Speaker 1: 29:30

It is Trust me. I've had to swallow a few of those.

Speaker 1: 29:36

So you know, and not knowing how to do it differently is the other thing, because it's all well and good to sit here and say this in hindsight because we've gone through so much of that, but for someone who's going through it it feels excruciating and it feels like the wrong factor is what has how. I just feel wrong. I feel wrong if I'm not trying to gain your acceptance, and I'll never forget the day that I realized so many of my relationships were based on this, because someone would have a point of of view and I would want to give my point of view, and I could feel myself stopping because they might not approve of my point of view, and if they didn't approve of my point of view, then I might lose that relationship, and then, therefore, where would I be? It's very sad, but that is the truth, and I think there'll be a lot of people that can relate to that. And so then it was about having to find the courage to say my point of view, whether they liked it or not.

Speaker 2: 30:38

And I think both are exhausting, but one benefits you and the other one doesn't.

Speaker 1: 30:43

Exactly, exactly. So. I think you know, with everything that we've covered so far, what I think we're saying more than anything is to look beyond the workload, to look beyond the busyness of the year or the end of the year or what we think it is, whether it's kids and school or work and projects. You know, home maintenance, life maintenance. You know often, I hear today, you know, adulting is difficult. I hear that very often. And we're talking about looking beyond that and going why. Let's look at why is it so difficult, why is it causing us so much challenge to do these everyday things and why is there such a drain? And then focus on which is who and when? Have we ever been taught how to recognize what fulfills our emotional needs? Because I mean seriously, I wasn't ever taught how to recognize what would fulfill my emotional needs.

Speaker 2: 31:47

I think in this conversation which has been interesting because I'm sure you've noticed your clients as well this time of year the burnout side of it. Everyone's feeling it in their own respect. It'll be mind, body, emotions at different levels. But we have to look back in if you're feeling it in any of those areas. It comes back to the ways in which we have been taught to neglect ourselves in mind, body, emotions and, depending on the person, it might be more in one area than it is in the other, it might be all three equally, but if that burnout is present, it's because there's a lack of relationship with self in those areas. The good news is is that we can do something about that when we're willing to be curious and dive into asking the questions and exploring with the right people. And when we do that, it's amazing of where our subconscious and conscious mind takes us to help find those answers within.

Speaker 2: 32:42

For many years, a lot of us have turned to external excuses or external distractions to stop ourselves going inwards. And that can be for very genuine reasons, because a lot of us have never been taught or shown to go inwards, how to do it, when it can get to a stage where the burnout is actually too strong, it's too much, and life in its own way, forces us or asks us to take a step back and to begin working on ourselves in these different ways. And that's when we need to ask ourselves are we creating excuses? Are we getting caught up in the workload? Are we looking at our how busy Christmas is and therefore deferring certain conversations or certain actions until the new year, until February, because everyone's just too busy? I'm saying we all have our go-tos to avoid or to distract, and so when we're going to begin to take responsibility for those in our day-to-day lives, can we start creating the changes to stop us from burning out in mind body emotions.

Speaker 1: 33:46

Very good, very good. You Connect with like-minded individuals through our app. Navigate each step of the journey together with us by joining our Gareth Michael community. Here are a few of the things you're going to get. You'll get exclusive real-time access to live recording and events. Advanced access to each new episode. The opportunity to ask questions directly of Gareth and I Input into what topics we cover in the show. Access to exclusive content not available anywhere else. To learn more about our community, please go to wwwgarethmichaelcom. Thanks again and I hope you guys are having a lovely week.