Speaker 2: 0:12

Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast. We are so excited to have you on this journey with us, where we explore all elements of mind, body, emotions and soul through the lens of everyday life.

Speaker 3: 0:28

Hello Kim.

Speaker 2: 0:30

Hi Gareth, how are you? I'm doing good, we're back. We are back for season three. Welcome everybody.

Speaker 3: 0:38

It's hard to believe it's been pretty much a year since we put out the last episode of season two.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Yes, but let's not forget, we haven't been doing nothing. We've still been recording, doing other things. I mean, we have had a little bit of a break but we have been recording and some of those are on our private community. But we haven't put out another season and I'm excited for us to get started with season three.

Speaker 3: 1:02

But, as you're saying, it's been a very busy time for both of us and we've even had. I think one of the highlights actually has been we had the pleasure of seeing each other in person for the first time after many years, since the last season was out.

Speaker 2: 1:14

We did, and that was great fun. It was so good to be able to connect with you guys over in Europe. It was beautiful, made my whole trip. Actually I won't tell my daughter that, but it was one of the biggest.

Speaker 1: 1:28

Let's hope she's not listening right now.

Speaker 2: 1:30

Yes, but it was good fun and it was quite a while we hadn't seen each other in over six or seven years, right?

Speaker 3: 1:37

Yeah, it had definitely been a while. I think it had been 2018 or something like that was the last time we were together or something around that time.

Speaker 1: 1:45

So it was great.

Speaker 2: 1:47

But it is good to be back. I'm excited to get stuck into this new season and I'm excited what we're going to talk about tonight.

Speaker 1: 1:54

Yeah, we've chosen a small topic to get us started. Yes, yes, in your eyes anyway, so the topic that we'll be discussing on this episode will be the meaning of life.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Yeah, just a tiny one, Just to get us started, make some friends and influence some people, right?

Speaker 1: 2:18

Yes, we'll try anyway.

Speaker 3: 2:20

So the inspiration behind actually choosing this episode was from a season one episode that people really enjoyed and actually continue to go back to listen to. So that episode was called Finding Our Purpose, so it was kind of interesting. We both Kim and I, went back and listened to that episode after all these years. That episode came out in 2022. So it was a bit strange listening back to some of our season one material. How did you find?

Speaker 2: 2:46

it. I found it a bit strange, but I also found it very good, you know. I really did enjoy it and I think our listeners are going to find tonight very enjoyable because there's going to be a whole gamut here.

Speaker 3: 3:00

And I think it's a good place to start season three because we're going to open up in the season in a lot of different directions, explore a lot of these kind of big and small questions regarding life itself, as always. But what was interesting about season one? The season one is always more treated like, in my eyes, like a course that we were delivering in some way or talking through, laying the groundwork or the foundations of a lot of the things that we want to talk about or discuss, of the things that we want to talk about or discuss. Season two was a continuation of exploring that and getting into more detail. And I think season three is going to be fascinating because we're actually going to be going into a lot of different teachings, theories, covering a lot of similar topics in the past, because every time we talk about these subjects, it always takes a very different angle that you and I could never predict, which is the joy of having these conversations.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Absolutely, and it's always good to see just even how our perspective has changed from season one to season three, so I think that's going to be very interesting as well.

Speaker 3: 3:53

So, even from reviewing that episode in season one, the grounds of that was basically often which is similar to a lot of the teachings that we talk about is the purpose being understanding mind, body, emotions. So past, present, elements of the future and the impact that has on us today and the ways in which we can grow from that by choosing to explore it and the different ways which life brings it up on us personally, internally, and how things come up externally that sometimes force our hand to have to view certain things. So this is where it's interesting when you take a step back and now look at the meaning of life or why all of us are actually here and the areas in which we are forced to look at, or the questions that that brings up for any of us.

Speaker 2: 4:42

I think you just finished the episode right there.

Speaker 1: 4:48

Well, it was kind of funny jumping onto this episode because in discussing this topic, we were either saying that's either going to be a really short answer or it's an incredibly long answer. There's no in-between. Exactly.

Speaker 2: 5:03

There's no in-between answer for this one.

Speaker 3: 5:06

So I think I was kind of surprised though in thinking about this and even reading a little bit about it, because the simple answer is that, oh, the meaning of life is that we're just here to exist. To me, that felt like a very cold response and a very oversimplification of what it means to be human and what it means to go through life day to day Over the many years we're all here.

Speaker 2: 5:35

So when you came across that, what went through your mind? I think, honestly, the first thing that went through my mind is there's probably 8 billion different meanings of life, probably 8 billion different meanings of life, and that, depending on any given day that you catch me, my meaning of life could be completely different than it was last week. You know, I think there's an overreaching general understanding that we all come to but, like we've spoken about in the past, as we grow, as we evolve, as we get to know ourselves better, our understandings of some of these topics that we're talking about changes so much. So, yeah, that's what I thought about. I thought, wow, we're not starting small, that's for sure. That was my initial thought. Okay, the meaning of life and I, you know, I think to hear it's to exist feels way too simple and way too cold, you know almost like an atheist point of view.

Speaker 2: 6:31

We're just here to exist and that's it. You live, you breathe, you die done.

Speaker 1: 6:37

Beautiful and.

Speaker 2: 6:37

I go. Really, If that's the point, why am I still here?

Speaker 1: 6:43

Yeah, yeah, right. So there is truth in it, but it's too simplified.

Speaker 3: 6:49

It's an oversimplification for the things that we would talk about on the podcast and things we talk about even behind the scenes.

Speaker 3: 6:55

So I think this is where it's interesting, because to me, for a lot of us going through life, life is tough, like there's no point of saying it otherwise.

Speaker 3: 7:04

We've all gone through a lot of different experiences that we're still questioning why those things happen, not even able to go near, to even start questioning it more often than not, and to have that approach as if life is meaningless. It doesn't give you much hope if that is the approach that you're taking and to me, to go through this life, you need to somewhat have hope that there is meaning behind it and the journey is going down that road and exploring why certain things have happened, why there's certain people come into our lives, why certain people leave our lives. How do you begin to cover all that ground? But there's no point in covering that ground if you believe that there's no point to any of it. So why? Yeah, I think we're on the same page in the sense of just to say that it's just about existing. It undermines, I feel, a lot of the experiences of what it means to have life itself.

Speaker 2: 7:53

I agree with that and I also want to say that, you know, that seems so fatalistic, almost to say it's just to exist, because if it was just to exist, then why do we have to go through so many of those experiences and the people that we have in our lives? And why do some people apparently flow through it all which we know they don't really, and some of us, you know, bang our head against the wall for 30 or 40 years before we start to go oh, wait, a minute, there's a difference. Years before we start to go oh, wait, a minute, there's a difference. And I have to believe, and I think I've believed it since I was a small child, that there is a bigger picture to it all and I think, depending on where you're raised and how you're raised, and your culture, your generational beliefs, they all influence what the meaning of life is.

Speaker 3: 8:47

Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's that when you start exploring that there's people on the planet and again it's difficult to speak on behalf of 8 billion people, as we've always struggled with it's that some people on this planet, with their background, with their religious beliefs, with their family beliefs, these different things, is that some individuals do get a sense of peace and purpose and understanding of the meaning of life from a young age, but in my experience that's actually quite rare. Most people are given a set of programs, patterns, belief systems that they actually are fighting from day dot, or, especially after a certain period of time, sound familiar yes, it does so there's.

Speaker 3: 9:32

So you're never going to run out of people's understandings or opinions or experiences of what they believe the meaning of life is for them. And, to be honest, that's what's fascinating about this subject is because none of them, none of it's wrong when you actually lay it out. It's about going back to the understanding that actually brings you peace, that brings you meaning and understanding of why your life exists, and to do that, we have to be willing to question, to open up and to explore beliefs, patterns that aren't sitting with us and that we're constantly fighting within ourselves or fighting externally, or fighting life. It is important to take a step back and to begin to allow ourselves to question this and to educate ourselves on how different people approach this. I'm starting off with just existing.

Speaker 2: 10:20

It's not a strong place to start existing, it's not a strong place to start. No, and you were saying that, and I was thinking about back to my journey and going through my early childhood years and what I believed about it, and, like I was a rebel from the get-go, I didn't really agree with some of the concepts that I was being taught in the church that I went to and that caused me a great deal of trouble. But I do remember thinking and I do believe you were the one that burst my bubble on this one that as long as I'm a good person and my intentions are good and I do my best to harm no one else, then I'm on the right track and that somehow there'll be some reward at the end of it. That is what I would say. The general consensus for me about life was because I found it a challenge for most of my life, because I always questioned. I don't want to say I was just rebel and didn't believe it, but I questioned what people were teaching me from a very young age, and so I couldn't quite follow the same belief system that my parents did.

Speaker 2: 11:35

Having said that, I had a strong belief in my own spirituality. I just didn't believe their take on it, and so, and then I would watch their behaviors and think, wait a minute, that can't be right. And so then I had that thought that my life's purpose, or the meaning of life, was to be a good person. You know, go out there and do the best that I can, and if I'm a good person, then there'll be rewards at the end. And that's not what I believe today, but that's a journey and that's, I think, one of the things you and I both talk about all the time that there is no concrete, right answer to this question, single person, depending where you are in your life, what your upbringing was and what understandings you've gained as you've gone along this journey called life.

Speaker 3: 12:31

It was actually interesting when reading up on what people's understanding was the meaning of life and I did love, honestly, some of the simplistic approaches that people had. It was kind of like, okay, they may not know the ground answer to life and the meaning of life for themselves or for everyone else, but there's some simple, if you want to call them rules that they go by or live by that improves their lives and other people. So, for instance, being kind to everyone around you so that you never know what someone's going through, and making sure that you brighten someone's day, or just being generous because you can, even if that is with your time, with your attention, with your emotions, with your space. Just the overall feeling of leaving the world a better place than what you found it, no matter where you go, is what someone says. Well, that's all I can do because there's so much outside of my control. Now. I did think that was actually a very lovely simple view. So some of the simple points of view are actually really beautiful. They can be correct in their own right and I do think that can add a lot in day-to-day life. But I think when you're looking at, when it comes back to self and this vast journey that we've all been on to date.

Speaker 3: 13:39

We often do have more questions and answers about our own individual experiences that we've gone through, both negative and positive, but mostly negative. And this is what I do love, as you and I both love about our jobs. But I do love working with people because in previous seasons we've talked about the spiritual contracts, sacred contracts, divine purpose, divine design, how there is a reason and meaning behind everything we've gone through, and that has always been such a difficult concept sometimes to explain to people, especially when you're talking about so many people on the planet versus. Yet when I'm working with someone in their individual capacity and they're saying very specific experiences or going through certain things that are very difficult. It is, I don't want to say easy, but it is easy to get to a place of understanding the meaning behind when they went through it, because it's like solving a puzzle when you're asking very specific questions, going through certain things mind, body, emotion, soul but that's always a very tough understanding to get across in a globalized, generalized sense. When you apply the 8 billion people, when working with individuals, can you help them find the meaning behind certain things that they've struggled to understand their entire life.

Speaker 3: 14:50

Can you go into specifics Absolutely, and it's always so enlightening when you're working with someone and you see that glimmer of hope, of actual okay now I can free myself from this, I can understand why these things happen versus when there's an understanding that's generalized and that there's just is meaning behind it and you have to trust us on that.

Speaker 3: 15:09

That's a very hard thing to wrap your arms around or actually to believe in, because we all do need specifics at times not to have those aha moments, be able to move forward, to actually believe or to have hope that there's meaning in all of this, because a lot of us are weighed down by a lot of these, a lot of these negative experiences that we still can't understand what we've been through exactly. So I can understand how we a lot of these negative experiences that we still can't understand with what we've been through Exactly. So I can understand how we a lot of people like the simplistic there either is meaning or there is no meaning because they need this simple understandings in order to keep going through life, because they can't take any more complexity or confusion.

Speaker 2: 15:41

True, very true, and I know that I subscribe to what you talked about at the very beginning of that, where it is being kind because we don't know what someone's going through, doing no harm, leaving everybody off, better off. I understood that at a very young age, but I understood that because I thought there was a scorecard and if I hadn't done that properly, someone was keeping score.

Speaker 1: 16:05

You mean, you were conditioning your kindness.

Speaker 2: 16:07

I wasn't conditioning it, I just thought. So here's a story. So here's my mom, irish Catholic, bless her little soul. And I mean that she truthfully believed in her Catholicism 100%, and I'd love to say it brought her peace. But I don't think it did. And I'll tell you why I don't think it did. Because when she had dementia and she was in the nursing home and she was so scared of actually dying and I got the opportunity to ask her the question, I said, mom, what are you scared about? Now let me just preface this. Most people call my mother a saint. When she was living, okay, she went to church seven days a week. She cleaned altar linens all the time and she looked me straight in the eye and she said what if I haven't done enough and I end up in purgatory? I was like I'll personally come and kick God's butt for you. Okay, if that's the case, it just was beyond my comprehension.

Speaker 2: 17:10

That here's this person who did the very best she could her entire life. Did she make mistakes? Sure, she did we all do but they weren't intentional mistakes and her faith, which should have brought her peace, in the end didn't bring her peace. And that made me very sad for her, because I used to think, well, she has her faith and that does bring her peace. And then, when I saw that, I was like I think it's very sad that she didn't find that place of you. Know, I'm okay, I have done the best that I can. So that's what I mean when I talk about the scorecard.

Speaker 2: 17:53

I wasn't trying to condition my kindness, but I believe that okay, well, if I'm a good person, if there is a big person in the sky which I'm not saying there is, you know, I'm just saying that's what I was brought up to believe Then I'm going to come out looking pretty good. That's the goal of life. I adopted this theory at a very young age. Well, of course, then I got into my addiction, didn't I? Probably wasn't the most kind person, probably wasn't the most honest person, probably made more mistakes than we'd ever be able to cover, had to adopt a new meaning? Because that wasn't going to be it. I still subscribe to that kindness because I don't know what somebody else is going through leaving the people off better off than they were when I met them, because if I can do that, then I'm going to feel better about me. See the difference in why I'm doing it now.

Speaker 2: 18:51

It's that change in why I'm doing the purpose, and when my head hits the pillow at night, I go to sleep. I'm not thinking about anything because I am at peace with who I was today. So I think that's one of the things we're talking about when we're talking about trying to find the meaning. I did it before because I really did believe there was a scorecard up in the sky. Today I don't believe there's a scorecard. I know I have a conscience and I do want to be the best version of me and I don't want to do harm.

Speaker 3: 19:24

Yeah, and those core principles can bring a lot of peace and, as you said, they're not going to do any harm. And it's that if you can do good and you can bring kindness in that way, well why wouldn't you? You know, because I do think, and we all have experienced in our own way, that it goes a long way when we do it for someone else and someone does it to us. An act of kindness can go a long way. Taking a step back further into the meaning of life, because the world is so vast and there is so many questions, both internally and externally, that we're never going to find the meaning of everything. It's just an impossibility to start with. But what I do love about some of the things we've talked about in previous episodes is that, when it comes to our internal radar and the things that we don't understand about self, life has a really interesting way of continuing to make us question those exact points within us that it wants us to go question, to understand the meaning for ourselves. And that's where, out of all eight billion people, all eight billion people have that ability. But it may or may not be on their journey to tune into that, to do that for themselves, because there isn't a right or wrong way of doing it. So therefore, it's that finding the meaning is about understanding present day of the things that we're still questioning.

Speaker 3: 20:38

And what gives me a lot of hope is that a lot of us are still finding a lot of things that we don't understand because a lot of us never have given the opportunity to know how to understand, know to question, know how to, where to get the answers, to help us get our own answers, because it is a multi-step process, multi-year process.

Speaker 3: 20:56

But just because we haven't found the meaning yet doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, whereas a lot of us firsthand have never seen some of these experiences, seen people get to a place where they actually got a meaning out of what they've gone through, and therefore we don't necessarily have hope that it is a possibility or that it's even possible for anyone at times. So this is where actually having that little bit of hope that the meaning does exist, I think goes a long way and gets people through a lot of difficult times in their life. That even if they don't have it yet, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It's a timing thing, it's an exposure thing, it's about willing to explore. It's all of that and to me that is important. But getting through this tricky life that is very layered and often not very fair, and to me that's a more interesting way of trying to understand that there is meaning to this life instead of just existing until we die.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Well, I agree with that a hundred percent. And I think, as we go through life, regardless of what our journey is, you know those things that we question about ourselves, whether we question about ourselves, whether we question it about our careers, whether we question it about you know, like, even with the work I do, when I had to find an ideal client, so to say, I looked at me, I went okay. Well, my whole thing was, I did everything I was told to do. Yet here I am extremely unhappy. So I want to help people that were like me, that don't know how to find that peace within themselves.

Speaker 2: 22:26

And so, however, it's unfolding for people there's different, like you said, the layers and complexity of what that meaning is going to be. And if you were to ask me today because as long as I've been on the planet, I think that meaning has changed many, many, many times, and that's okay too. And so if you were to ask me today, I think what is the meaning of life? What is the purpose of being here? It is to explore me, like there is so much that happens in this life and for whatever reason, whether it's societal, whether it's generational, whether it is just the experiences that we've had the belief systems that we have. More often than not, we find ourselves blaming ourselves, putting ourselves down, criticizing ourselves we are the problem, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, instead of trying to understand what's going on inside of us. So you know, and I avoided that like the plague, as you know.

Speaker 1: 23:31

We all did.

Speaker 2: 23:33

Yes, yeah, and there's probably been more peace in my life since I stopped looking outward for the meaning and started looking inward for the meaning.

Speaker 3: 23:45

But this is what's really fascinating about what you're saying, because we'll never be able to understand every part of us internally either, so you'll never understand everything going on externally in the world. You'll never understand everything going on internally in your own little world. It's that both there's elements of it that's meant to be both misunderstood and mysterious. But our ability to question and want to explore is the growth within life itself and wanting to understand ourselves better. And that's what I meant earlier about the internal radar of what our subconscious and conscious mind brings up on us, that it wants us to explore present day.

Speaker 3: 24:16

That does not mean digging up every single part of your past, because why would you do that? All of our past is so expansive, so vast, and you couldn't even go through everything in your entire life, even if you tried so. Therefore, it's not about going to that extreme. It's about understanding that in our day-to-day lives there's constantly little signs and signals, on an ongoing basis, of what our energy wants us to explore, to have a better understanding of self in order to be able to grow in our own little, unique ways. And saying all that, of course there's going to be different resistances and of course it's going to be complex and somewhat messy to be able to go through all that, because if it was simple and we were able to understand the meaning of life overnight, all 8 billion of us won't be the point of being here.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Exactly, Exactly and I think, Gareth, what you're saying which is so important and why, for me, when I first was introduced to the concept of sacred contracts, it was a lifesaver for me. Now I know a lot of the people who listen to our podcast really get quite triggered and upset with us when we talk about sacred contracts.

Speaker 3: 25:20

Understandably.

Speaker 2: 25:22

The truth is, for me, having been raised the way I was raised and having to, you know, be a hundred million times at the dinner table there's starving children in Africa that would love to have that food I didn't understand why some people had to suffer to such an extent, why some people appeared and I am going to say appeared, because I know differently now, that they're flowing through life with no issues whatsoever, which we know.

Speaker 2: 25:48

that's not true. But for me at the time, I thought it was true. So when Sacred Contracts was introduced to me, I was like, oh, hang on a minute, there is a reason why we're going through the suffering. Okay, now I am not going to feel so bad about those kids in Africa. I'm not wishing them harm or going oh well, so bad, too bad. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I'm understanding that all of us are suffering at some point and that there is a reason for that. And if we can look inward which we're never taught to that we can start to begin to understand what was happening for us. And that brought me peace.

Speaker 2: 26:36

I'm not saying it's going to bring everybody peace, because I know it won't. I know that very well. But it brought me peace because I, as a very sensitive soul, couldn't understand why in the world, out of 8 million people, some people are really tragically hurt all the time. Why were there wars? Why are there starving people? Why are people dying randomly? Why do they die and I get to live? You know those kind of questions.

Speaker 3: 27:05

But why are we going down this rabbit hole?

Speaker 1: 27:09

Yes, welcome back to season three, everyone so much for keeping it light on the first episode.

Speaker 3: 27:17

Sorry, oops, let's take a step back from this week's episode and share with everyone what we've been up to behind the scenes we're really excited to be able to finally offer the Gareth Michael community to each of you.

Speaker 2: 27:32

The community offers a range of benefits, including access to our live events, weekly podcast episodes, articles, self-checking questions, as well as a community of individuals you can connect with and interact with along the way. It's designed to offer you support, guidance and a safe space on a day-to-day basis. We'd love to have you join our global community of like-minded individuals. That website address, again, is wwwgarethmichaelcom. Now let's get back to that episode, shall we?

Speaker 1: 28:10

dot com. Now let's get back to that episode, shall we?

Speaker 3: 28:15

This is where it's interesting, of course, in what you're saying, because when we use that understanding of secret contracts, divine design, everything happens for a reason. When you expand it out to a worldwide view and all of these things going on that are horrible, it's so hard to wrap your head around and it's natural that you're going to fight it or resist or go. There's no way that that would actually happen. In that sense, another conversation you and I actually had not that long ago, even a few weeks ago privately is that it's amazing how a lot of us use other people's suffering as a distraction away from our own suffering. And this is what when we say, look at that going on over there and look at that going on in that country, and why is that happening over there, and look at the national disaster over there, it's that we actually use other people's suffering as a way to express our own emotions in ways we can't process in our own lives. So we project them.

Speaker 3: 29:05

And this is what's fascinating when we talk about the secret contracts concept teaching, whatever you want to call it is that it always shows us what we're fighting currently in our lives or fighting from our past.

Speaker 3: 29:19

So it brings up resistance mentally, it brings up all the emotions, it brings up all that our body tenses up. But that's actually a radar within itself of the areas in which we still don't understand and we don't know how to accept the things that we're still fighting internally and externally. And that's what I love about that understanding, because it can give us so much meaning and it gives us direction in the areas that we can still grow so much. But even in saying that everything happens for a reason, it does not mean that you and I agree with these events happening, agreeing with bad things happening to good people. I'm saying these things all happen, whether we like it or not. But to sit there and not question it and not find reasoning, to not find meaning, and to understand the teaching behind it, to therefore, hopefully over a period of generations, continue to create change, that's why we need to question it and that we have to find hope that there is meaning behind it. Otherwise, what is the point?

Speaker 2: 30:13

Exactly, and so if you go back to what we're in general society, I would say the bulk of the population, not all of the population. We're taught that the meaning of life is to go to school, get a degree, get married, procreate and die beautiful right, but how well is that working? Out for everybody like you know, and as a general concept, there's nothing wrong with that there are some people that very much, very happy in that realm.

Speaker 2: 30:52

But life doesn't go that smoothly like you're saying, and so being able to find meaning behind why it isn't going smoothly for you, if it's not going smoothly, or why one part of it's going smoothly and the other part's not going smoothly like you were saying, the conscious, unconscious mind, bubbles it up at the right time for you to have a look at it.

Speaker 2: 31:15

It's hard to for me, it's hard to doubt divine design when that sort of thing is happening, especially in the type of work that I have, because what happens is I will have something bubbling to the surface in my life and then I'll have a client that shows up with the exact same issue and I laugh at that today. Not laugh that somebody else has the issue, but laugh at the fact that, oh, you are really good at avoiding and now it's right in your face and you can't avoid it anymore because you can't turn away from it, which is I mean I could, but I don't. So I think I don't. I just didn't want to go too far down the rabbit hole, but I needed to explain that the rabbit hole, but I needed to explain that For me, that's been part of the journey and the beautiful part about finding that aspect that made sense to me. Did it make sense when I was 20? No. Did it make sense when I was 30? No. Did it make sense when I was 40? No, Not even at 50.

Speaker 3: 32:18

I had different belief systems all through there but this is what I want the listeners to understand is that, even when we talk about this spiritual understanding that we've been discussing for years now on this podcast, is that you and I still fight this understanding at times in our own personal individual lives. But this is partly what I love about the understanding is that it continuously challenges me to want to question and understand why these things occur in the world, in my internal world, externally everything. Does this mean that this understanding has to apply to everyone? No, this understanding is what has granted you and I, in our own individual ways and on different timelines, a sense of peace and understanding that we hadn't necessarily found elsewhere. Now, did all the spiritual understandings and information in the world contribute to where we've got to today? Absolutely, it's.

Speaker 3: 33:05

I'm saying, as we talked about even in season one episode once, understanding spirituality is by taking little pieces of information as you go along through this life and bringing you to a place of what brings you peace and understanding of this crazy world we live in.

Speaker 3: 33:19

So therefore, I look forward to it in this season actually continuing to explore all of these little elements that we've talked about even on this episode, because it is very simple in one sense, which I remember you were saying before, that when something's simple, that's when you know it's truth. But even when we hear that, it's not uncommon for all of us internally to fight it in our own ways. But that's what we need to explore because that's where the growth is and the meaning is. And then it's different for every single person. So of course it's hard when a client comes to me or comes to you and they've been through some pretty horrible things and very and unimaginable things and they're you're things and you're met with. So you're telling me that I chose for all that to happen in my spiritual contract you know.

Speaker 3: 34:03

But the answer is yes. And now let's go explore it and see why. But I've always been blown away about the level of peace that we eventually get to because we're willing to dive in question it, go down the routes of mind, body, emotion, soul, past, present, future. So, even though saying it to it in a global sense sounds crazy and doesn't sound as if it's possible, but yet I've seen that understanding work in so many individual people's lives that I've worked with, and I know you can say the same, that I know what to be true, that there is meaning behind it, even when we can't see it in our own day-to-day lives.

Speaker 2: 34:40

And I think we need to clarify, because this was hard for me to understand in the beginning as well. When we say, you mean to tell me I chose this. Well, I, the personality Kim that is here experiencing this life today, did not choose that. Rest assured, everybody, I didn't pick this path. However, the essence of who I am, that spiritual part of myself that has been here for as long as eons did, and I think it's so important to separate that out because the personality is so big, or, as people call it, the ego, is so big and we go.

Speaker 2: 35:25

I'd never choose that. I guarantee you. I wouldn't have chosen my life, guarantee it, but some part of me did. Whether we want to call that my higher self, whether we want to call that my spirit, whether you want to call it my soul, some higher part of myself knew what I needed to experience in this life. What's interesting about it is, now that I'm at this point in my journey and I look back on all of that which I said I would never have chosen. I couldn't be sitting here today without it.

Speaker 3: 36:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:01

And that's the part that becomes so important when we can get past the personality part in understanding that.

Speaker 3: 36:09

As you said, understanding the difference between the two and understanding why we have that.

Speaker 3: 36:14

I know we talked about that even in the ego episode, of understanding that I never had a problem with the ego, because if we chose that ego, then there's a lot to learn from that ego.

Speaker 3: 36:22

But you need to question it and explore it at the same time.

Speaker 3: 36:26

So this is what's interesting about it, because you're saying, yes, kim is the person, gareth, as the person did not choose this, but the energy essence part of us absolutely did, and this is why it unfolds throughout our lifetime and we are all such complex beings in mind, body, emotion, soul.

Speaker 3: 36:43

There's like four different departments within every single human that's growing in different ways and there's tons of overlap between the two in past, present, future. So it's not trying to over complicate it, but it's more saying that that's also why, going back to an earlier point, why you can't figure absolutely everything out or come to an understanding and meaning about absolutely everything, because there's parts of this meant to stay mysterious or misunderstood. But in saying that, we already have specific sticking points about our own individual lives that we struggle with, don't understand, need to or sometimes want to and don't want to do the journey with, but life likes to get creative in ways and don't want to do the journey with. But life likes to get creative in ways that it forces us to do it because we're here, whether we like it or not right, exactly, and you know there's so many examples of things.

Speaker 2: 37:29

I was just thinking about my, my own kids life and my life and all the things that I thought I was meant to be doing, what I thought I was meant to be doing as a career, what I thought I was meant to be doing in life, and no matter how much I tried to make that happen I said this this morning in another meeting, so excuse my French, because I'm about to swear I was constantly pushing shit uphill because I thought I had control of the reins and I knew that's what I was supposed to be doing, and then it would never work out. And when I let go of that and started going inward, that's when things started to change and started to flow in my life, and so that made it a whole lot easier to have that understanding instead of trying to control the way I thought it was supposed to be. And I think we're kind of taught that. We think that's part of the meaning of life some of us at different stages of our life and so I think it's important to reflect on that in your own life. What have you been trying to push that just isn't working for you, and what would happen if you let go of those reins and try and find a different meaning for why you're going through what you're going through.

Speaker 2: 38:44

You know I was speaking with someone today, gareth, and this topic came up because this person is experiencing something pretty big in their life. You know they have someone they love that is terminally ill and you want to get yourself questioning the meaning of life. You have that happen and it certainly brings up a lot of questions for lots of people. Absolutely, and you know, shock horror. Anybody that's listened to this podcast for any amount of time. That knows me probably would have fallen off their chair if they could have heard me because, as I was saying to that particular person, you know as hard as this is to say. I think part of what's happening now is understanding the powerlessness of what you're experiencing and coming to a place of acceptance of that powerlessness. Mic drop now, because I would have never thought I would have said those words, but I can see very much in this particular circumstance with this person. That is what is coming up for them.

Speaker 3: 39:50

Yep.

Speaker 2: 39:51

Who voluntarily raises their hand and says hey, let me go do a journey with powerlessness and acceptance.

Speaker 3: 39:59

hey, let me go do a journey with powerlessness and acceptance.

Speaker 2: 40:05

We have to remind everyone that acceptance is your favorite word. You know Powerlessness too, so yeah, so it was interesting to hear myself say that, but I could see it so clearly and for each individual and depending on where you are in your journey, what was coming up for this particular person was they were wanting to question themselves and blame and shame themselves for what was happening, and I was like I'm not in it. It's very easy for me to see it from a different perspective, and I can see you're struggling with the powerlessness that you don't get to have a choice in this, and there is no easy answer to powerlessness no, no.

Speaker 3: 40:48

But this is why we have to explore these different areas of our lives when they do appear, because they do happen without our permission. On a human level, you know, spiritually, we, you and I might say that it happens for a reason, and you know a part of us planned this out when you're in it. We all truly know. When we're in it, we're in it, you can't see the understanding. Emotionally it's overwhelming. Physically it's overwhelming. It's very hard for all of us to get meaning in our own individual lives because we're too close to ourselves in those moments, and that's why we need the assistance of other people at times to help draw us out the understanding, to be able to ask why, to process, to explore, and it comes with time, but it's allowing ourselves to be open-minded too, that there is a meaning behind it, and as long as we're willing to explore that with someone and over a period of time, it will come.

Speaker 2: 41:36

I do agree with that, and the other thing that I agree about that is, whether we like it or not, it does come around if we're meant to have the understanding and sometimes we're not meant to have the understanding, and I know that as someone that was very fascinated with trying to figure this stuff out at a very young age it never ceases to amaze me how many different versions of this we come across on a daily basis, and none of them are wrong.

Speaker 3: 42:07

No, because all of us have that understanding of whether something sits right with us or not, because something can sit right with us, but yet it's still parts of us fight it. And it's even the same with this understanding of spiritual contracts. When I first came across it read up about it, michael introduced me to it. In a part of me it felt right, but yet mentally and emotionally I was like this couldn't, it couldn't be this.

Speaker 2: 42:28

But yet a part of me still wanted to explore that, because it's as if it resonated with me in some way that I can't explain, whereas the next person who hears that or listens to it might say absolutely not, and then moves on to the next thing, and both are equally correct, as you were saying, yeah, and so I know one thing I know for sure I don't think the meaning of life is all about productivity and gaining financial gain, although some people really enjoy that.

Speaker 2: 42:55

That's an adventure in itself, but I don't think that's solely it, because even if that is someone's gain, the productivity, whether they're out there, creating, growing, becoming multimillionaires, they're still the journey. They're still the things that they have to come up against, that they get to know themselves in it, that they have to come up against, that they get to know themselves in it. For us to think, though, that it is simply to amass as much financial gain as we can get, those many materialistic things, I think that confuses people, and they get lost in that rather than being able to turn around and go what is it for me?

Speaker 3: 43:39

Well, so much of the journey is about actually coming back to south, because for so many of us, for decades, the prioritization has been other people, what other people think of me, what are they thinking about? What are they doing? Should I be doing what they're doing? What should I be doing for their approval? So a huge part of that is actually it's not dismissing all of that. It's been understanding by bringing it back to self. And finding a more of a balance between the two is that I need to question myself, I need to explore myself, I need to educate myself and we're always going to engage with the world anyway, but finding the balance between the two that we don't lose ourselves or we're not escaping what we're actually going through in our day-to-day lives or using other people as a distraction away from self is a really important thing that we all need to learn.

Speaker 2: 44:21

Yes, I would absolutely agree. And so right before we started the podcast tonight, I told you that some people would say that I was in a melancholy state of mind before we started. Because there have been some big changes in my life and I think the melancholy, or what appears to be melancholy for me, is the fact that I've come to a place of deeper peace with me and because for the majority of my life I have always been at war with me. It feels uncomfortable, unfamiliar, wrong. I don't even mind saying that it feels wrong. A part of me goes let me just go drop a bomb somewhere. You know, not literally, but you know figuratively.

Speaker 3: 45:10

Because I'm used to the chaos.

Speaker 2: 45:14

I'm used to that chaos and I don't have that in my life at the moment, and while it's what I've always wanted, it leaves me going oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. And what I find interesting is I thought if I ever got to that point where I wasn't full of chaos and drama and all that sort of stuff and that peace was there.

Speaker 3: 45:40

Yay, I made it.

Speaker 2: 45:42

But notice what happened. I'm in that place of peace and I'm questioning it and I'm feeling melancholy and I'm making it wrong. There must be something wrong. There's too much ease here. I've got to make it even harder. And that is exactly what we've been talking about the last hour, about. It's an ongoing process.

Speaker 3: 46:00

While we're here, yeah, and the meaning of life is so unique to you that a lot of people will have their understanding of it. But even as they're exploring their understanding, that doesn't mean up, even brings them peace. They're just trying to figure it out, also, like we all are trying to figure it out. But this is why, this is why we have to come back to self, because the external world is always going to be a crazy place, and this is why. But what we can do is to continue to work on self internally, that our internal world isn't a crazy place, and to do that, that means we have to be willing to explore, to understand and to question.

Speaker 3: 46:35

But when we have that internal guidance guiding us in areas that we should technically go look at or question, it doesn't mean that we can't. It's just often we don't know how to. But the good news is is actually there's a lot of information out there. There's a lot of people who have been willing to do that over many years or many generations. So it's just about the openness of willing to question. What is the meaning of your life to you in mind, body, emotion, soul, present day? Because, as you said earlier, that definition, that understanding, will continue to evolve and change as you go through your own life.

Speaker 2: 47:08

So I think, if you've been listening to us have this deep, meaningful conversation tonight, I think it's really important to recognize the key point that we're saying is there is no one meaning and whatever is bringing you peace is the most important thing for you at that moment. And if you haven't got peace, that search for finding the peace within yourself becomes your meaning of life. And be aware that that changes over time and evolves and grows and it's like life itself, it just does not stay stagnant, it continues to change.

Speaker 3: 47:50

We both knew, coming into this topic, that it was a huge topic to try to cover, that there was never going to be a simple answer to that question of what is the meaning of life.

Speaker 3: 47:55

We were never going to reach the end of an answer that was going to be a simple answer to that question of what is the meaning of life. We were never going to reach the end of an answer that was going to satisfy anyone listening. But I think this is what's really interesting about it is that we have to be willing to question any of these areas, to understand where our current understandings come from, what ways are we triggered in mind, body, emotion, soul and to be willing to start questioning those areas and asking why am I triggered when I heard X, what does that bring up in me and my emotions, and why? What's going on with me physically? It's these different things that we begin to build a better relationship with self, which to me is always the current meaning of life and present day, because all we have is ourselves at the end of the day, Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 48:40

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