Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast. We are so excited to have you on this journey with us, where we explore all elements of mind, body, emotions and soul through the lens of everyday life. On this week's episode, gareth and I talk about our experience as we walk the journey with Michael.

Speaker 2: 0:38

So I think for this week's episode I actually want to dive into the process in which I've actually channeled Michael and I know we've talked about a bit about that in season one but in season two there's been different references surrounding it and there's always been an interesting, curious thing to talk about and even with my family, my friends, even clients, discussions that we've had over the years, it's always just been an interesting topic that is kind of mind boggling a little bit, but super interesting and it's still something that I don't know I'm going to be a sys that I'm still figuring out how to explain to other people and I'm sure everyone can relate to it to some degree in their own way.

Speaker 2: 1:14

But it's still a tricky one to explain to people and I do think if I didn't talk about the Michael component and if I just had a said it was a spiritual awakening back then there might be less questioning around it. But I think it's just as hard for sometimes the mind to get to understand channeling and, I guess, how that works in any of us. So I'm interested to see where this conversation goes.

Speaker 1: 1:38

I think it would be not fair to you or to anybody else just to have called it a spiritual awakening, because many of us have, as we've talked about in the past, many spiritual awakenings and people don't come away from that with a head full of knowledge. That you've come away from when Michael entered your life, and I think one of the important things in this conversation that we're going to have tonight is talking about all the different concepts that people have about what it means to have Michael in your life and the challenge in trying to describe that, because they have an expectation of what that should look like or sound like or be like, and it's different for every single person.

Speaker 2: 2:21

Yeah, and I do want to talk about it more on a human level in the sense of what does actually like, because, as we would have talked about, I'm sure, in that episode in season one, it's actually it wasn't something that I went searching for. It was also something that I liked the idea of, because everyone likes the idea of that, everyone likes to be in touch with their guide and to be able to share those messages, and it's when it happened to me. It's that all of a sudden you're met with a really big change in reality and I was talking to actually some of my friends about this actually a few days ago. Of ever since Michael came into my life, there's been absolutely nothing about my life that's been traditional. Everything has been super non-traditional, from the experiences, from the exposures, from the challenges, all of those different components.

Speaker 2: 3:06

But then I actually recalled that when Michael came into my life, I was actually in a really dark place mentally and emotionally before I met him, before he came through, whatever the language you want to use and I actually remember being in that really deep and dark place and kind of saying, if anyone's out there, if anyone's listening, if you even exist, whoever I'm talking to, and I was quite young as we were to talk about, and I remember saying this, that I saw the way that my life was projected out for me in the sense of in the societal expectation of a certain level of education, a certain job, a certain relationship, a relationship, those destined to break down and to have kids and huge mortgage. And I just remember thinking at 18, kind of being like if I'm already this disengaged with what life is expected of?

Speaker 2: 3:51

me or what I'm expected to engage in. I remember thinking that I only want to stay here if we do something very non-traditional, I can't do the traditional route. It was a moment of pure vulnerability in my body, emotions, and that's when I would say later I had a challenge writing from Michael, and when I tried to explain the people, it was when Michael came through to me. He wasn't Archangel Michael, the Oriental Michael, it was just Michael. What people don't talk about, I guess, is the when someone experiences that. How do you actually begin explaining this to people, moving forward without sounding absolutely nuts?

Speaker 1: 4:28

Well, it would have been a very interesting topic, because how do people explain it to people? Because it's so out of the ordinary for anyone to have that experience. Now, there have been people throughout time that have had it, but in the beginning I would imagine that they've all felt that, oh, how's this going to go if I try to explain it to someone?

Speaker 2: 4:49

It's the immediate judgment and I get it in so many ways and it's still because people are like but how does that work? Because I think people do think of, say, what they see in TV shows or in movies or in society, or do you hear them or do you all these kind of components. My experience with Michael has always been so much more, as you know, logical and it's been more about, as you said, the information and foundation of knowledge that is there and then some of the insights when questions are asked. And I think that's what's even more interesting to talk about, because there's still those foundations of what it means to be human and feeling all of those emotions deeply, having those thoughts is quite different in experience compared to what it was like prior to Michael, but when you have all of that knowledge, it does make a huge difference in how you approach life, as we both know.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Right, but there you are in this dark place. I want to go back to that. So there you are in this dark place and if I remember correctly, you went off to be by yourself and do a little bit of meditation, and then you had this channel writing from Michael, and as you read back through that, what was your initial response?

Speaker 2: 5:53

Well, I actually don't think it was even I wanted to go meditate. I went to go sleep because I was so mentally emotionally exhausted, because I was just so dumb, and the way I describe it is that I was actually falling asleep from the exhaustion and there was in that in between space of about falling to deep sleep, but not quite, which is what a lot of people would feel in the deep meditation that I suddenly had the urge to grab my notebook and pen and journal a little bit, which is something I would have done as journaling before. So may or may not be familiar with automatic writing in that way of actually channeled information or just being on the flow in writing. It was that component of that's how Michael came through to me in that moment in time and I remember reading it afterwards and there was that disbelief of us. Is this actually happening?

Speaker 2: 6:40

And, as I would have mentioned in previous episodes in our podcast, is that I was privileged or lucky to be around people who were channeled as well or had exposure to it from a young age and it was something that scared me or that I was frightened with, but it just was the last thing. I had expected that would actually happen. And I think, from that moment on, all the events that unfolded over the days, months, years to come, were definitely non-traditional, but always, I would say, very, very logical. And I think that's the component that's continued to surprise people around me and myself at times, of how non-Aryfairy it was. It was actually the opposite.

Speaker 1: 7:22

Right, but at the same time, like you said, a lot of people want to know well, how does Michael appear to you, or how do you hear Michael, or how do you get a sense of Michael? And really it's more of a knowing from what I've understood and also from my own experience with you, just for our listeners. There's been times when I've gotten on a call with Gareth Michael and there's just this look, you need to understand, we're on different sides of the planet. He's in Ireland and I'm in Australia, and there's a look across a video and everything inside of me. There's no denying what's going on, and so that would baffle most people to try and understand. How does that happen? And, of course, our logical mind wants to have it stepped out for us. Well, what was it? Was it something he said? Was it the energy? Was it? What was it?

Speaker 2: 8:18

There is some well-known people in the industry who are channels, and I think Esther Hicks Abraham Hicks is probably the one that comes to mind for most people, especially if you've been exploring or doing a special journey for a long time, no doubt you would have stumbled across their work or listened to some other stuff. The way that Esther Hicks channels Abraham is that's exactly how I can channel Michael and have done in the past of just stepping into that deep space. Then Michael starts speaking through me and, as I would have talked about in previous episodes, there's nothing wrong with that. It's a wonderful experience. Came way back in Australia, actually sat in front of that part of Michael when we were in the room together and there is a huge energy shift. That actually happens. There is that feeling of something different in a room and it's a very hard thing to be able to explain to any person who hasn't actually sat in that space.

Speaker 2: 9:07

But as time went on, the hybrid model some people don't like me calling it a hybrid model, but the hybrid model that I explain is the Gareth Michael and what I mean by that is what I noticed in my day-to-day life. There'd be very little going on within my mind, and I mean by that is no chatter, nothing like that. Yes, I would still have emotions, I would still have aches and pains, I would still be very human, but that if I was in conversation with someone and someone was talking to me all of a sudden I would have these answers. I would just keep coming through and coming through and if they ask a question, the answer would appear. So all of these per se life problems are difficult things they might be going through and a confusion is just.

Speaker 2: 9:48

My mouth would open as I start talking to Gareth Michael and sounding exactly like this. So a lot of the people were finding those day-to-day conversations incredibly helpful. So it wasn't always this big spiritual experience of Michael coming through. It was actually a lot more casual and a lot more just practical. I really loved that component of it because it made it a lot less intimidating for people and just a lot more human, because the idea of people meeting Michael actually put a lot of fear in them. So people stopped being themselves in a lot of ways of how they would communicate or ask questions.

Speaker 1: 10:23

But also. So, having sat in that energy, I want to clarify I don't know if they tried to stop being themselves. I know even for myself, who have been around a couple different people who do channeling. When Michael appeared that first time I sat with you and Michael, it literally was like everything went out of my mind and I had walked in with a million questions, as you know from the next day, but everything just went out of my mind and there was this peace and it was like no, there was a part of me going no, I'm getting robbed here.

Speaker 1: 10:58

I really have a lot I want to know, but there's nothing to know, just this sense of peace, and that's got to be confusing for people. But also, it's not helpful in your day-to-day life and if you're exactly if you're in the industry of wanting to help people, all you get is a lot of overwhelm, really, instead of being able to be of service to somebody in the way that you're helping them, which is what you're calling the hybrid model, where people meet Gareth and then Gareth Michael is here. They can't really see the difference of that.

Speaker 1: 11:34

But you can't deny it because of the logical answers that come forth, correct?

Speaker 2: 11:39

yeah, and again, I look forward even diving inside a little bit deeper in this little. People have also asked you when we're recording or doing the podcast, how do you know the difference between when it's Gareth, when it's Michael or those kind of things, which is just all is fascinating still. But I think, as you're saying, is that when people sit in front of Michael or any of those channel or any channel thought matter it is the level of peace of actually that everything is right with the world, even though before you walk into the room it's like everything's wrong with the world, and then when you leave the room, everything feels right for the world for a period of time. Then you go back to being like we.

Speaker 2: 12:13

I still have these problems and I never got the answer to which, again, is, I think, is very understandable in a human level. I think that's why, over the years in which I was channeling Michael, I saw it naturally, organically change and evolve, trying to find the best roots in order to actually allow Michael's wisdom or those kind of components to come out in a very efficient way, or people could potentially experience both well, and I think one of the other things that happens for lots of people is you know, we have these expectations and if you've been delving into reading about it and you know, naturally the mind tells stories about what it must be like to have an angel.

Speaker 1: 12:52

And, oh, I'm gonna get to go and see someone who channels Archangel Michael. And I can tell you quite honestly, very few people would disagree with this. They're like I'm going there to get some answers. You know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna get the answers that I need to get so I don't have to keep making these mistakes. And then when you, when you're there, you're not getting those answers because that's not what you're there to get. And then that in itself becomes confusing and frustrating. And I mean, how many times have I have I been speaking to you and you give me an answer and you just go.

Speaker 2: 13:26

Well, we know you don't like that, kimberly, but that's the way it is, unlike yeah, no, but that is true and I think that's where the exposure that I've had with Michael throughout the years has always worked for me, in the sense of us that having all this information, this wisdom, this knowledge, while still holding on to all the fundamentals of what it means to be human and building off that and living a day to day life Is that.

Speaker 2: 13:59

Obviously, as we talked about before, there's so many different versions of spirituality and people's explanations over on their journeys and the different ways in which they seek information.

Speaker 2: 14:09

But, as all I can describe is that the way in which Michael works through me and the knowledge or wisdom that he's provided has led me to come to peace in no longer searching for anything is kind of the point. So, as you and I have talked about before, we understand that the things that myself and Kim talk about on this podcast people may disagree with it, might not be people's cup of tea, and but we you and I have thought that way towards so many other explanations within spirituality doesn't mean we necessarily disagree with it, but doesn't mean that it's just right with us either, and that's where the search in our continuing for Looking for information and I can only describe is that the way which Michael's information sits right with me means that I'm at peace with life itself, and I think that's why, even as part of the podcast, we want to share that knowledge, that wisdom is well of real life experiences on a human level. That's a problem to us both.

Speaker 1: 15:01

So don't you think, though, that, garth how many people do you come across on a daily basis or I come across on a daily basis that experience peace, like? I know that in my entire life, that is what I have always been searching for. I might have named it different things, but it was the peace I was searching for, and I want to clarify here what you're saying. Yes, you do have peace, but you still having the human experience, and I think lots of people think having peace means you stop having human experience, and I don't necessarily think that's the case would you agree?

Speaker 2: 15:41

I would agree because I think what I've always found fascinating about, say, I don't want to call Michael's teachings because it sounds cliche, but it's more the doing, the journey with Michael or that information or knowledge, is that it's the ongoing ability to find peace within the chaos of interacting with life.

Speaker 2: 16:00

And ongoing basis and I think that's what I love about that is because I think that's actually a really hard combination to achieve is that anyone can maybe find peace when they're alone in the room, by themselves maybe, but I think the ability to actually want to engage with life and throw yourself into the chaotic elements, what it means to be human and then still to be able to accomplish that level of peace and never miss a night's sleep, and even if it is having that emotional experiences or having that emotional turmoil that you know I still go through as long as I thought zero, but it's the ability to regulate that emotion and to feel it and then to let it go. You've seen how quickly that that can occur. We would jump off a call, I might express something to you and then by the next day I'm like I'm good, it's gone, it's past.

Speaker 1: 16:52

Yes.

Speaker 2: 17:01

But it's those components of us, not that it's zero, and I want to make that very clear, but it's that. I think Michael, with the, with the knowledge and with the information and wisdom Allows me to actually embrace it so much more in the process and to understand why it needs to exist, why it's occurring on a human level, what's the experiences to be learned or to come from it and I think that's what's invaluable about it of being able to continue to find peace within the chaos.

Speaker 1: 17:30

Well, I think, yeah, definitely, it's valuable, and I'm sure that everybody listening would say, yeah, I would love to have a piece of that, but that's not necessarily all of our journey. And then what I want to come back to is For people like myself who have a lifetime of events happening and trauma happening and chaos happening and lack of trust happening. When you meet somebody like you, that is, it's got the wisdom of an angel, but you've seen very much just gareth how can they trust that? Because the nature of the mind is to be very mistrusting. When you've had all those experiences, so it's been naturally. I'm sure you've gotten this question, the question of well, how do I know it's Michael? How do I know it's Michael talking to me? How do I know it's not just you? Have you gotten that question so many times?

Speaker 2: 18:25

But I think this is where there is no verification process is because the verification process is Opening up that safe place for you as the person to ask as many questions as you want, and it's when the answers that come out of my mouth that begin to click or start making sense to what's going on and maybe the aha moments, and that's why that happened, with the emotional releases and feeling light afterwards, and it's all of those components of those interactions that actually is verification enough that this is different.

Speaker 1: 18:56

You know, I think that's very interesting and it's very true, but for myself, of course. I had that first meeting where the energy was different. The second thing that happened was for me and I'm just speaking for me, for anybody else who might Do any work with you there was too much. I'm a very guarded person, to say the least, and you know, as you would probably attest, there was a lot of control going on in me when you and I first met, and so for me not to be able to keep the wall up. I have successfully kept that wall up in front of people when I don't choose to let them in Most of my life.

Speaker 1: 19:38

When I started working with you, I couldn't keep the wall up, no matter how hard I tried. That was verification for me, or also the times I get on a call and you would look at me and the tears would instantly start and I would think I hate you and I literally would think that guys, I'm not kidding, I go. No, this was not a night that I was meant to be getting all over emotion.

Speaker 1: 20:04

Yeah but so there are different ways to verify because, like you said, the logic comes through. It fits for what's going on in your life, and I have to share this one because this is so hilarious. So one time I got on a call with Gareth Gareth, michael, and we're chatting away and, out of the blue, gareth Michael says so I think you need an early night. I'm like, oh, that's weird, I'm getting let off the hook. That's really weird. Okay, I'm going to take it because I'm very human and I'm very like, oh yeah, shoot, dodged a bullet, got off the call, didn't sleep a wink that night. Super emotional.

Speaker 1: 20:43

The next day it felt like I've been hit by a bus. I was like hang out a minute. Where did all this come from? I mean, it was all very pertinent for what I was going through at the time, but I was like, okay, I get it Next time. He says we're having an early night, be ready, because something big is going to be processed. Because that's what I see it as, and I think that's important to say as well. I was definitely processing emotions that night. I was definitely going through some things that had been brought to light earlier. I just didn't really want to talk about it. Gareth Michael said okay, you don't have to, you're still going to process it, though, and that's kind of what happened. So I think there are those things that are undeniable.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Yeah, but as you mentioned, I think the process of that verification is completely different for every person of what they're meant to be.

Speaker 2: 21:36

That conversation or potential conversation on the feelings and the intuition that comes along with it, and I think that's what I've always loved about. I guess challenging Michael is that space that's created between myself and another person, because it is such a really hard thing to describe. It is such a safe, open space, and then it's amazing what can come up. Michael's not there. I don't have a crystal ball. We're not a medium in the sense of we can't contact any relatives or friends or family. That's passed.

Speaker 2: 22:11

We can't tell the future of what's going to happen or what's coming down the line. It's never been that way. But if there are questions in life of why did this happen to me, why is that going on, why is this bubbling up in me, why can't I do this, any of those questions about life itself, and if you're willing to explore it in my body, emotions and try to understand it in a present day sense, then it's always incredible to see the results that have come through. And I think that's why it is also very different to what people expect, because they expect the mediumship or they expect the clairvoyant or those kind of components at times, and it couldn't be more the opposite of that.

Speaker 1: 22:56

Exactly. And the other thing I would say is that you haven't said I mean, you said it earlier but I'm going to say it again it is such a safe space, whether we're realizing it's a safe space or not. And so it made me just come. What came to mind was you know, michael is known as the archangel of protection. You know, often when you see pictures of Archangel Michael, he's got a sword and he's got his armor and he is there as a symbol of protection. And it's one of the reasons why I know I thought I was intrigued.

Speaker 1: 23:29

What I found once I started working with you is that safe space that I had never had before. And I think that and again, I do realize it's different for every person, but I do think that is the connection that gets built, the safety. And so whatever the person is there to experience, there is safety in being able to experience that at that moment. And I think it's what's missing in a lot of therapies, you know, self help, all of that sort of thing. We think that we're in a safe space, only to find out that there's that normal human whatever going on around it and all of a sudden we don't feel safe. So the wall goes straight back up again. But when you're doing this work, it's that one on one that is safe.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Even when it came to Michael come into my life. I just thought I have to remember for Han, I was not into angels. I knew nothing about Michael. All of this was completely new to me, and there'd be people coming to me that knew more about Michael than I did. I'd be like something like Michael.

Speaker 2: 24:36

You didn't tell me this you know it starts not how it even came to come around, and the only way I can describe how Michael works through me now, as I mentioned earlier, is if someone asks me a question, the information just starts flowing out of my mouth, and that's when people are like aha. But I'm even intrigued that I'm out of this question all the time. But I know you've got it even recently and I love to hear how you explain. It is that people ask how do you know when it's Garth or when it's Michael, even on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 25:11

So there's two different ways that I know. So you guys can't see Garth Michael as we're sitting here talking, but I can, and so, as in my job, one of the things that I do is I notice every single micro expression that people have. So when Michael starts to come through, gareth and we're on a podcast and I'm watching their different expressions that change, and I know that Gareth is not aware that his expression is changed, and quite often he'll see me smiling and I can almost see him going. Wipe that smirk off your mouth, I know, or he'll go and he has a look that he gets, and I go always listening that it's coming through.

Speaker 1: 25:55

I just need to wait for the information to come through and then, of course, as a lot of people have already commented on the podcast, you open your mouth and this wealth of information will come through.

Speaker 1: 26:07

And even I feel like I have to sit up in my seat, turn on my ears you know my listening ears and I have to listen quite closely because the amount of information that comes and how deep it is, the speed and the depth of it is pretty big, and so I'm like, oh gosh, I gotta pay attention.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Someone's gonna ask me about this and I can't get lost in it, because sometimes I have gotten lost in it and Michael will be finishing saying whatever is being said and I go so Because I have gotten lost and I know we're laughing about that, but that is the truth, because sometimes it is very deep and it is very fast, and I know that because Gareth and I have a friendship and so I see Gareth outside and I know how it is when we're laughing and being very human and the minute that the information starts coming out of his mouth and I go okay, stop, play time's over, michael's here time to get busy. So that's how I notice it. I don't know if any of your other clients notice it that way, but that's what happens for me.

Speaker 2: 27:21

And I think that's why even in season one just are the first few episodes. It's an impossible ask when someone says, can you repeat that? And it's like no.

Speaker 2: 27:30

So thankfully we've podcast now that records everything, because the ability to repeat it is zero, because even once that flurry of information actually comes out.

Speaker 2: 27:41

Myself, as Gareth, I don't remember what was said and I know you experienced that many times as well that when you're in the flow and you're just talking, it's a different part of us is speaking completely, so it's hard to repeat. There's different experiences and different wisdom or information that comes from Gareth because, as we talked about before, saying, like this guy, I've been to a lot of human experiences that have been tough, that have had a really processor understand on a human level, and this refer to the many stories that Kim brings to the podcast on the mind of a, the so relatable to a lot of people, and I think it's that a combination of, yes, people can connect to Gareth on a human level, but then they have the safety and comfort and knowledge, wisdom, also from Michael as well, and also where the girls, michael combination works for a lot of people, not for everyone, but works for a lot of people and I think it's really safe to say for people, because especially people are new to that experience at all.

Speaker 1: 28:40

I know that in the very beginning of my spiritual journey, when I was first speaking to different people, whether they were channeling or mediums or whatever. It's always afraid.

Speaker 1: 28:50

I was afraid of what was going to be said, like I'm gonna hear something that I don't want to hear. Well, I can safely say, after all the years of doing this work, that nothing that comes out is not anything that you're not meant to hear. Does it mean you like it? No. Does it mean that you're gonna follow all of it? No. But there's a deep part of you that connects with it because, okay, I might have to mull on that one and practice that one a bit.

Speaker 2: 29:26

I wish that didn't hit, but it did.

Speaker 1: 29:29

Yes, we said didn't hit, but it really did. So it's interesting because I think a lot of people do naturally have that fear that something is gonna come out of your mouth, are you are gonna talk to them about the future and we both know that's not what happens here, and I think one of the things that has always amazed me, from the very beginning of you and I meeting, is the amount of times we get on a call and I'd start my little Rampage for lack of a better way of saying that of distracting from me and I would have 50 million different topics that we could talk about that had absolutely nothing to do with Kim and you would sit there and just smile at me and go Just a distraction, just a distraction. I was like it's a good thing we're on computer because I just want to.

Speaker 2: 30:24

People are getting an insight into our relationship.

Speaker 1: 30:31

So it was so good for me, because what people don't understand or maybe they do because they're getting to know me if they've been listening to the podcast is in Therapy terms or personal development terms, I would have been classified as a runner, like Avoid or runner, whichever term you want to use. I had mastered this craft at avoiding Kim and I could talk about anything and everything but what was going on inside of me. And so to sit in front of you and to have that just nope, nope, nope. It's like okay, there's nowhere else to go now. It was a very interesting process for me and I remember it very clearly going. He's hard, he's the only one I haven't ever been able to get past.

Speaker 2: 31:28

But I think I know we've talked about from the very start as well is that the fun that we've had along the way in the healing process, I think is also notable. I think it's the ability to go deep and to have those very real conversations and for it not to be a scary thing and I've noted that that's Michael's style of working with people is kind of the point of nothing. Healing can be fun, but it definitely doesn't have to be scary. Right, that was new for me.

Speaker 1: 32:00

Absolutely Well. New for me because, I'm sure you can remember, I don't know if I should say this or not but I get this homework.

Speaker 1: 32:08

I get this homework on the next call I might be sweating bullets. I knew I was going to get in trouble. And I didn't get in trouble because he already knew I hadn't done it, and it was like, oh, I'm trying, though, I really am trying. It was just really funny for me, because I think for me and I'm not talking about for anybody else, I'm just talking about the experience that I had in the beginning, because never, ever before, had I been so accepted so unconditionally in this environment, and that was a huge thing for me, and I think that's why the friendship also grew, because it was like, oh my gosh, I can be me and it is safe to be me, and no one else in the world has ever accepted the quirkiness of Kim before in the same way, so it's been really great.

Speaker 2: 33:07

But I think that was the birth of the podcast as well, actually over the years, because I think in my self and Kim's relationship or friendship, it is what has developed in both of us to feel more comfortable in our own realities regardless, to be able to come on and actually talk about it with other people. Because there's things in Kim's life I've no doubt she was trying to accept or trying to get her head around and there was definitely, as I mentioned at the start of this episode, it was the same for me of going. I know I had this experience with Michael. I know what's real for me, I know where the information comes from, but a part of me was, as a human being, as Gareth was faithful, of being judged for it or who's going to believe me and who's going to do all these kinds of things, even though the results have always been there and the impact has always been there.

Speaker 2: 33:53

But the joys of being human and having that back and forward in those moments which is something that I'm always asked Michael never to actually shield me from per se I always wanted to be able to have those ongoing very human experiences as Gareth's an individual in mind, body, emotions, and I hope I know it'll always continue to be that way, because that's actually what allows me to continue to connect with people on an ongoing basis, to be able to get them on a human level. If I was just with Michael all of the time, in the sense of just channeling him all the time, I completely lose my ability to understand what human reality is like, and that's kind of has been the problem, I feel, for a lot of channels out there or for a lot of this. There's just been no warmth to that connectivity of, oh, they're also human and they go through the same stuff I do.

Speaker 1: 34:42

Right, right, and I think that's got to be very confronting a couple different levels for those people that have gone through that, because we're here to have the human experience period. That's what we're here for. You tapped into, michael, and that's great, but you still have to have the human experience.

Speaker 2: 35:04

Well, that's exactly what I mean within the, you know, peace within the chaos, because it's thought to be human is still such a confusing experience for everybody is kind of the point. And it's never, it's completely unpredictable for everyone all the time and, as I said, like Michael's not a clairvoyant, he doesn't tell me what's going to happen next week or whatever it might be. Has Michael, with his wisdom and knowledge, allowed me to have access to the tools to deal with life's realities and our ongoing basis and the process, the emotions, both happy, sad, angry, frustrated, anything in between? Absolutely? But I think that is the gift that keeps on giving within itself, because I haven't sacrificed any part of what it means to be human and what it means to be gyrus and I have the knowledge and wisdom from Michael. It's a pretty good combination.

Speaker 1: 35:50

I think it is too, and I certainly enjoy coming along for the ride with you.

Speaker 1: 35:55

It's been a lot of fun, and I say that with all sincerity, because when you first started talking at the beginning of this podcast and you were talking about the peace and the chaos, I can can honestly say my entire life has been chaos and my life is still chaos, but there is a lot more peace. Am I completely at peace with it, like you are probably not, but there's certainly a lot more peace than there has ever been in my entire life and I'm really grateful for that, because I used to just feel like, as you've heard me say before, every time I get my head above water and feel like I get dunked down again. Well, now, if I get dunked down, I go oh yeah, that's all right, I can come up for air. I'm not saying it stopped, it's just that there's a different level of wisdom that goes I'm going to be OK If I'm going to come up for air, it's going to be all right, and I am very grateful for that experience.

Speaker 2: 36:53

And I think, to summarize again this episode, we didn't have a plan or a script for this particular topic by any means, but I think it's that the best advice I'd probably give for people who are listening to me and myself and Michael are talking, as Gareth Michael is that try to focus less on where the information is coming from and more just focusing on what the information actually is on that subject. We will talk about so many subjects throughout this podcast and you will find that the angle or the way in which it's approached, or the information will continue to evolve and change, because certain episodes as we both know, kim have a bigger impact on a person more than others, and I think that's just depending. But there needs to be that ongoing variation, that ongoing change and, as we talked about, I know, five years from now we'll probably have a completely different explanation for a lot of these same subjects Because, as we often are mine, there's eight billion people on the planet and it's not one understanding that will sit with everyone. But at the same time, these conversations will continue to open up different parts of our mind or have us look at things a little bit differently, and that's the part of actually growing in wisdom and knowledge and in the process of healing.

Speaker 2: 38:06

Also, and I do want to just remind people that how I ended up meeting Michael, or how he came through to me in that way, is when I actually went down deep into the human parts of me and my body emotions of actually hitting rock bottom. This is kind of the point. It wasn't by denying my emotions, denying my mind, pushing them away. It was actually the opposite of owning my reality for what it was at that time and it was not a nice experience, but at the end of it I got the support that I needed because I was so vulnerable and honest with myself.

Speaker 1: 38:41

I think that's a beautiful way to end it that honest and vulnerable with yourself, because so few people have the ability to do that, and I think that's part of the quest, isn't it? Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you would like to explore these topics more with us, please go to wwwpatreoncom. Forward slash practical spirituality podcast. Not only will that help us keep producing these shows, but you'll also get advanced access to each new episode. The opportunity to ask questions is always welcome. Each new episode, the opportunity to ask questions directly of Gareth and I. Input into what topics we will cover on the show. Access to exclusive content not available anywhere else. See you over on Patreon.