Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast. We are so excited to have you on this journey with us, where we explore all elements of mind, body, emotions and soul through the lens of everyday life. In this week's episode, we revisit the fascinating subject of sacred contracts and delve deeper into why they battle us so much. Hey, Gareth.

Speaker 2: 0:40

Hi Kim.

Speaker 1: 0:42

How are you feeling after your week of being sick?

Speaker 2: 0:45

Much better. I think it's funny because it's both of us that were taken down by a bit of a cold this week, So been eager to dive back in and get some recording done.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Me too. I'm glad to hear you got your voice back, because you were struggling there with that voice, weren't you?

Speaker 2: 1:03

There was no voice, which benefited some people during that time My ability to not talk, but no, it's good And again, i think obviously we want to make sure that we're both able to talk and not be losing our voice halfway through a recording, because I don't think that makes for easy listening. So I'm sure we still sound a little bit stuffed up and will throughout this recording in places, but one of the subjects that we actually wanted to record or talk about last week and then, as we mentioned there, the cold happened So that stopped our ability to do so But is going back into the subject of sacred contracts or divine purpose, divine design, which was season one, episode two, over the last few weeks. So you did take the time to actually go back and listen to that episode, but is there anything in particular that stuck out for you, because I know that was very early on in our process of recording and actually just getting into it?

Speaker 1: 1:57

There were a couple of things that stuck out which I was really pleased that we had. I went back and did that because I couldn't remember what we had actually said about sacred contracts And I found it interesting where we started with the sacred contracts and we moved on, as we usually do, to the importance of understanding the mind, body, soul and emotions of what that is, so that our contract plays out the way it does. So I found that interesting.

Speaker 2: 2:26

Like many of the subjects we tried to cover in season one and even now in season two. It's just there's such big subjects and they're so layered. And I actually think that especially applies for sacred contracts or the idea of soul contracts or those components, Because even after all these years of you and I working together and I know this was something that you came across many moons ago when you were starting your journey And I think it's one of those subjects or topics that can be so healing but it can take such a long period of time to get your head around it, because it is a bit of a mind melt.

Speaker 1: 3:01

I agree, and it is a bit of a mind melt, but for me I was sharing with somebody else the other day about when I finally really started to wrap my head around it, how it was the first thing that started to make sense to me and allowed me to move forward with so many of the questions that I had that seemed so unanswered at the time.

Speaker 2: 3:25

It's so free, because then I actually think it allows us to be able to take responsibility, which I know is kind of a curse word in some ways or no one wants to do that, but no one knows actually how to take responsibility. And I think it just feels like if you're going through life and everything feels so random or things could happen at any stage and there's no reason behind these events actually happen and you can understand why anxiety can run quite a lot in people, or if they don't believe that there is a ultimate understanding, lesson, learning that comes from any of these experiences. So I think even the concept of that there is a plan, this is a part of your journey, there is wisdom to be extracted from this in mind, body, emotions. So it can be a very healing way to look at it And I do think then we stop blaming life, blaming other people, even blaming ourselves, and it just becomes more of a logical way to look at life when we know how to, and it does completely change our ability to question these different experiences. I'm intrigued to dive in And I know throughout this conversation we'll probably get into some intricate details that go along with just beginning to explore sacred contracts a little bit more And I'll put my hands up and admit to some parts of it that does sound fiction in some ways, because, again, we just never had the time or sometimes a reason to even think in this way before when it comes to our own individual lives.

Speaker 2: 4:45

And I think one of the questions that is normal to ask when even looking at sacred contracts and individual contracts is so what's in this contract, or what is defined in this contract for me? and my response is everything. And of course people look at you and what do you mean? everything? And of course it's like no, but every single detail, right down to the T, of what you're going to experience in mind, body, emotions, soul, is already let out in this contract. That can be a tricky thing to get your head around, because then naturally people go towards and what about free will?

Speaker 1: 5:19

Yes, they do.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Also natural progression to actually want to understand. then what about free will? Because then that doesn't mean I free will, or if I don't know free will, i'm correct in saying in that episode, season one, episode two, we did talk about free will.

Speaker 2: 5:31

But, I think it's that. What's going to be difficult to get our heads around at times is that we do naturally still have free will, because if everything in this contract was laid out and designed by us for us and we're following that contract, we did technically choose to experience life in this way. So it is technically still a free will because we're just following the choices we've already made. Do you know what I mean? So, even if it is any particular thoughts, emotions, anything we do physically, there are all huge components that actually lead us to have very particular experiences as we go through life.

Speaker 1: 6:06

And I think that gets confusing for people, though, because that is a lot to take in. Rather than being able to go because some people will go, oh, then I have no responsibility, i don't have to worry about anything because it's all been laid out, and so whatever is going to happen is going to happen. That's not what we're trying to say here. I mean, of course, you can do that if that's what's in your particular sacred contract, but I think the real trick about all this is our conscious mind has no idea what's in the contract.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Yeah, it's not allowed to know.

Speaker 1: 6:42

And it's not allowed to know, and so that's an important part of it, because we want to know, we just want to know, as you know, we want to have it all laid out for us, a to B, and I understand that. So what's in this contract? Let me have a look at it. But it doesn't work that way, because how else will we grow and evolve and have the experience of that growth and evolving?

Speaker 2: 7:06

Because the beauty of life, as we've talked about in many episodes before, is the fact of how unpredictable it is and how messy it is, and our ability to understand that messiness and to experience it fully in mind, body, emotions.

Speaker 2: 7:18

And I think it's even in certain episodes that we've talked about my father passing away, we've talked about your brother passing away, on different circumstances, different timelines.

Speaker 2: 7:26

But if we hadn't known that those things were part of our contract, or even part of theirs, is that we automatically would have went into a very human mode of wanting to control or try to stop it or try to do all of these different things, which would have resulted in us not actually going through those experiences, but then we would have been in that even more controlling as a person is kind of the point, which is not a way to experience life either, is to be 100% in control of everything.

Speaker 2: 7:52

There is meant to be that mystery as we were talking about there. There's not meant to be the known part of it, and this is why, at some stage, i would do want to get into the conversation of then, when it comes to, like, say, psychics or their abilities to predict certain things moving forward in life, of how does that play into all of this or where does that actually link into contracts. It's a very interesting conversation But yeah, when it comes to the contracts, it's meant to be messy. It's meant to be unpredictable, because it's actually less about trying to understand what's in our contract from moving forward, but actually about, in the present day, how little we still understand about the contract we've lived to date.

Speaker 1: 8:34

Not to get caught up In what's in the contract or the fact that we have already laid this contract out. Yeah, because that's just mind-boggling and you know like, another whole topic is quantum physics. But people talk about quantum physics and you know The need to know of the quantum physics is not a reality to our day-to-day life, the same as with our sacred contract.

Speaker 2: 9:00

It's not a need to know in our daily life 100%, i like, and this is why it's important to have a basic, i think, understanding of these different theories that relate to us and apply to us all.

Speaker 2: 9:12

But Having to know every single detail within it, i think, is a good reason to actually avoid the reality of day-to-day life that we all go through and, as can we imagine before, people use spirituality or these different subjects to run away from their own, their own realities And therefore it's that actually, in simplifying at a time, it actually exposes us to what we're not able to deal with so far in our lives, or some of the things that are Frustrating us and knowing us, hurting us on a day-in, day-out basis, and that that be our anxieties or grief or not understanding how to navigate Certain parts of our day, week or month.

Speaker 2: 9:47

I think, in us talking about practical spirituality, it is trying to make the practical day-to-day living easier, for people to be able to process it and to understand the greater meaning of Why they would have chosen this route. And I think, in order to do that, there has this idea of a sacred contract Actually, i don't want to say forces us to take more of a bit of a responsibility of putting ourselves in these positions, but that's not an easy pill to swallow either, which has been both of our realities, because we've both went through certain experiences, go on and never want to chose this and I'm not gonna be convinced otherwise. But what that actually shows is that that's a very human quality of us suddenly feeling all of these emotions. In that moment We don't know how to process or haven't been taught how to process because we did process them. We'd actually be okay with what we went through.

Speaker 1: 10:31

So it is an interesting Topic or theory to actually see where we are on our journey of our acceptance of some pretty difficult Experiences we've been, we've been through so far and I think, gareth, you know, depending on where we are in our journey, where we are in our understanding, when you think about the sacred contracts, like when it first was introduced to me as a child, i was Absolutely obsessed with death. And the reason I was obsessed with death? because I wanted to know When was I gonna die, how is I gonna die? and if I looked enough obituaries, i'd be able to figure that out. I know insane, but that's what my little brain thought. And then, as I got older and I experienced that That phenomena called being around people who died, you know, i was Pretty wanted to know everything about the other side and I wanted to know why did people leave when they left, and was it their choice? Was it, you know, a higher powers choice or whose choice? What really was it and how did all that play out? But at the same time, as a child, they show a unicef commercial and I'd almost have a meltdown because you know These poor, starving children that are malnourished and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1: 11:45

So when I first got to know about this at the beginning of my journey, what made sense to me was oh So there is no puppet master up there going? oh, you suffer and you get to have the great life, because that's what I wanted. Oh, you have to die young and you have to die Old. That what? what it helped me wrap my head around in that moment was oh, wait a second. Each one of us Has got a plan for what we're here to experience, and so it allowed me to go. The children that are in a Terrible situation are having those experiences, because those are the experiences that they're chosen to grow from and evolve from, and they will either grow or they won't evolve, just like I will with my addiction. I would either overcome the addiction or I wouldn't overcome it.

Speaker 1: 12:37

Yeah but it wasn't up to God or a higher power, whoever, whether I did or not, it was up to me, and the plan that I had already out in my journey and How long I stumbled in that was how long it took me to actually understand why I was going through that particular Experience. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 12:59

It does, because I think a lot of us have been through certain experiences that We never actually thought we could get through, or times in our life We never actually thought we could survive.

Speaker 2: 13:10

But yet if you ask people about how did you get through that, they'll say I don't know, it's just an inner strength or something happened or something got me through it. And it's actually something that people find very hard to put in towards, for obvious reasons, because one those times Our lives tend to be a blur to start with Because of all everything going on in my body emotions But then we also do recognize that there was something and even if it is our own energy, our own guidance, our own Internal being that actually got us through it. And this is and I know we've had that Interest in conversations in the past that are quite confronting. Is that so, as you mentioned about your addiction? is that Why was Kim quote-unquote chosen and I know we're not using the term chosen, but I'm saying it Mm-hmm understandings from decades ago is, and why was Kim chosen or allowed to fight that battle and actually get through it? Or is a lot of people in Kim circumstances weren't?

Speaker 2: 14:03

yes and I know that's basically what you were referencing as well But I think that's why it's so important to actually talk these things out because it's not like Kim was Stronger than someone else or Kim put in I mean in times more effort than anyone else is that it's each individual person's journey and their ability of what they are here to experience, and That's why it's always going to be such a fascinating Subject for us to explore, because it actually does come back down to each Individual, instead of trying to patch it up as a mass understanding, because that's that's always going to be quite a tricky thing to do, because each person's life is so Intrigued in its details of what makes that person human or what makes their journey so unique exactly and you know, as I even said, going through that experience and then working with so many people afterwards when people would say, well, how did you do it and why did you survive when other people didn't and I?

Speaker 1: 15:01

I would have to sit back and I Used to say this quite often if I can answer that question, bottle it and sell it, i'd be a millionaire. But the truth is I can't, because I don't know why my Journey was different than somebody else's journey and trust me, i have tried. I Do know that I made a commitment to myself to have a better understanding of why I was in the position I was in and When I one of the things that I have noticed in my journey and of course it is just my journey. Once I made that decision for me, i Couldn't, i couldn't veer off that.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 15:45

That was me. That doesn't necessarily mean that's the same for everybody else.

Speaker 2: 15:49

Yeah, as you were saying that, that is what's so hard to get the head around in a lot of ways, because it's a it's a very different View or actually outlook on how to approach, because even with people I've been working with for quite some time, it's still one of those subjects that Triggers a lot of emotion because it's like no, no, no as we said earlier Is that I didn't choose this because you would have to be a crazy person to have to choose everything that I've been through so far.

Speaker 2: 16:15

And I was like exactly because when you chose this life, you weren't a person, you were an energy actually deciding on this actual contract to have all of these both positive and negative experiences and everything in between, and Even in actually beginning to explore Sacred contracts, it can be bring a lot of comfort and actually understand your own journey.

Speaker 2: 16:36

But I actually can give a lot of understanding to Other people's journeys as well of why they're actually maybe not meant to do the work on themselves, why they're not meant to explore spirituality and some of the terminology in the industry. It never stopped right with me when you hear those terms of someone is spiritually awake or is Kind of referring to even what's not being said that then other people are spiritually asleep, or, you know, people are doing the work or they're at a higher vibration And that means that other people that are at a lower vibration and to me that just always felt kind of To comparing of one person's journey to the next, when everyone's on their individual journey. Because if everyone's following their contract, from the moment That they have their first breath to the moment they have their last breath, they're following their spiritual contract, no different to your eye. So therefore they're equally a spiritual, regardless of what they're here to explore while on the contract.

Speaker 1: 17:28

I would agree with that, but I know okay. So you're opening up the conversation, so I'm gonna come in at that. I do use that terminology about my energy and by you know my vibrating at a certain level and The people that are around me are vibrating at the same level and other people might not be.

Speaker 1: 17:47

I don't mean that in a hierarchy at that I'm better than less, than it means that These are the people that are in my sphere at the moment for me to understand what I'm meant to go through And I and I want to share this because I think this is important, and I don't know if I've done this in a previous episode, but I used to wonder all the time, early on, before I, you know, got a lot of the work done, used to have some of the strangest experiences and some of the weirdest people would approach me and that always gave me the creeps And I didn't understand it. Now, having said that, i can tell you that at that stage in my life, i was very much running a victim mentality And so, therefore, i didn't believe in myself, i didn't have any self confidence, i didn't have any self awareness, and so a lot of people, you know good, feel like they can come in, and maybe they were there and not maybe, i guess, is we're saying this they were there to show me that i needed to do some work on either my boundaries are, you know, my own self confidence, in my own self belief. And then, as i continue to do the work, one of the key things i noticed was the creepy people seem to fall away. Now, when we talk about the energy vibration, see, i would say, oh, see, i raise my vibration. I'm no longer at that, that place of feeling the victim all the time. I'm now having a better sense of self and therefore People do not feel like they have the ability to cross those boundaries, for lack of a better way of saying it. So that's how i use that terminology.

Speaker 1: 19:31

But also we talk in terms of sacred contracts, those people coming up to me because i had something i needed to pay attention to And i think they were part of that contract for me to go. I don't feel comfortable in the way that i'm. Things are happening in my life. I need to do some work on that. When i did the work on that, those people no longer needed to be coming up to me because that contract was finished.

Speaker 1: 19:56

And so i do use the energy word And the vibration word, but i use it in a sense of not that i'm better than or less than anybody else, and i want to clarify this because a lot of people do use it. I don't think it's always used in that manner, but it was about for me to understand the more that i'm working and understanding myself mind, body, soul and emotions. Then i'm moving to a different stage of my contract, for lack of a better way of saying it. Okay, and so things change. It doesn't mean i feel like i'm superior or less than, but i certainly don't have the same experiences that i used to have when i hadn't started doing the inner work. That makes sense and is that. That's not to say that it's the same for everybody else. That's just my experience.

Speaker 2: 20:48

What i find interesting, just about the level of detail that this secret contracts go into, it's always just gonna naturally cause friction in talking about. Because even when you and i, after all these years to talk about it ourselves, we have these understandings and we have Michael and we have all these poems and we don't fight it, but we still roll our eyes out absolutely.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Yes, we do. Do i still argue about it?

Speaker 2: 21:21

yes, i do only yes, you, but it is those components that i think is important, because it's a very human thing.

Speaker 2: 21:32

Yes and because we've all been through so many experiences that we've never been allowed to express, never been allowed to talk out in a safe place, never been allowed to communicate, we still judge ourselves and a lot of respects for a lot of experiences that we've been through and let it be feeling guilty or shame or any of those emotions that come along with it Is you and i have talked about before in this podcast is getting to a place of an acceptance of an experience is a really tricky journey yes and it's long.

Speaker 2: 22:00

Yes we're on it as part of our contract, regardless of however long it takes for any of us, and it's across many different experiences as well.

Speaker 2: 22:08

It's very layered.

Speaker 2: 22:10

Anytime we talk about sacred contracts, with everything being in a contract, i think is we talked about earlier, it's a good indicator of where you actually are in understanding those experiences in mind body emotions, in your acceptance levels in mind body emotions I'm not is something that will continue to fluctuate as well and, as you, as you and i have discussed before that there's certain days that you might convince yourself that you're in the high ed 90 or 100% of accepting a certain experience, and i talked to you two weeks later and, let's say, the numbers are a little bit smaller. So it just depends on a very human Moments that come along with it, because in when we talk about processing an experience or accepting it, that does not mean that the emotions are, will be zero, moving forward and that experience forever. It's not because they were huge moments in your life that were defining, meaning, impacted you as a person, did change the course of your journey, or where you're heading in your path. Yes, according to your contract, when you're human here, walking around, you don't know any different.

Speaker 1: 23:18

So so i would say, according to my contract, i was right on track, but according to the human side of me, it changed the course where i was going, because i thought i was going in one direction and all of a sudden I'm going in another direction and it feels very unsettling because you go, wait a minute, i'm not meant to be going this direction, but here i go.

Speaker 2: 23:42

People naturally ask am i on the right path? when the responses well, you can't be on the wrong one. There only is one, because throughout, obviously, growing up and throughout the years is that you're always you would have heard as in which path you're gonna take and you know you're in the right one, on the wrong one. So suddenly, when it's just one, that's even the tricky one to get your head around, because what do you mean? there's just one. But i think that's what it was even interesting. When it comes to explore your spiritual path, there is no right path, there is no wrong path is just understanding and growing and maturing on the path you're on.

Speaker 1: 24:15

Yes, Yes, which, as you just said, is an extremely tricky experience, depending on the people that are in your life at the time that you're going through certain things. And so The example that i want to go to right now and talk about is when i first started working with people and the teacher that i had at the time Did in front of the group of us that were learning under her and said i want to be very clear about something Healing is not curing and curing is not healing. And i just was like what, what does that mean? Of course it is.

Speaker 1: 25:00

And then she went on to tell a story about someone who had healed themselves from a terminal illness And they had healed themselves for like six months and then went for a doctor's checkup and promptly walked out and stepped off the street in front of a bus. And so, you know, when she told the story, i was like, oh, you know, and all the emotion came up around this poor person. But, as you have explained to me and how I now understand it like if I were to go back and look at my brother, curtis, who got ill okay, there was so many things happening for every single person in my family around that illness. I can only mostly talk about what my contract with Curtis was and my experiences and how that helped me, but I would be blind to say that it didn't have that. It's not the same impact but a completely different impact on every single person in his life.

Speaker 2: 26:04

That's a huge point. It is a huge point because one of yet to see too many books that you and I have got our hands on that go into it in the simplistic but detailed way, the people that we lose in different ways, or the different experiences that are really traumatizing, to say the least, because we were never taught or shown how to actually process losing anyone under any circumstance, but to the end of suddenly think of it from a spiritual perspective, as you're covering, is that not only did that person choose to actually move on in their journey at that time in their lives and choose the circumstances in which they were to go. It's that all the people around them family and friends that also choose to experience losing a loved one under those circumstances as well. And then naturally you begin to question then but why would any, why would either party choose to have those experiences under those circumstances, and how would you answer that?

Speaker 1: 27:03

And how I would answer. That is because each of us have chosen to experience those things from our lens and those lessons because, like with my brother, it wasn't just the death, it was first the illness, it was how to grapple with the illness, what that meant for me And I can only speak for me watching how he changed from the time of the diagnosis till the time he actually left the planet and the impact his growth had on me as someone who was just supporting him through the journey. It forever changed me as a person and changed how I thought about it. But I also saw the impact in those areas it had on the individuals And then, of course, then that was him leaving the planet and how that impacted everybody. So there were so many different lessons.

Speaker 2: 27:59

So many layers.

Speaker 1: 28:01

So many different layers And so, for example and I love saying this and I have to say it before his diagnosis, i would say that my brother as much as I loved him and enjoyed his company was probably one of the most vain people I had ever met in my life.

Speaker 1: 28:19

By the time my brother passed away, he had created a non-profit foundation for people to be able to go with their families to deal with the emotions of getting a diagnosis like he had, where there was no support groups for that at the time. He personally had buried 90 people with his own money whose families had abandoned them. And for me, as someone who was like I sometimes just felt like I was along for the ride. You know, and I would hear these experiences and I would just think you know, this man was 31 years of age when he left the planet. So in those three years of growth that he or that time from the time he was diagnosed, so the time that he actually passed away, the unbelievable growth that happened in him that I got to be firsthand witness to, It impacted me on how I looked at the world and growth and death and illness and everything else.

Speaker 1: 29:21

And that's just me. You know he had nine other brothers and sisters that were also being impacted on their own level And I'm sure that we all got different things from that, different lessons and different things to process through that experience.

Speaker 2: 29:37

It's life altering.

Speaker 1: 29:39

So it was huge And it was life altering. Forever grateful, like we talked about that when we talked about grief. I wasn't grateful when it happened, but forever grateful now because of that impact it had on me and the direction I went in from there with life 100% And, as we talked about in previous episodes, is that like for myself and my father passing it.

Speaker 2: 30:05

Actually I actually felt closer to him after he passed away. Once I actually processed the very human side of losing somebody and then the logical side of not knowing how to process. But then, once the personal side of myself was able to process the mind and emotions and the physical of that reality, i actually was able to see in my work with myself and Michael and my clients how it was fascinating, how, over that course of the 12 to 24 months after the processing that, how many of my clients had lost their parents as well and how that directly impacted my ability and myself and Michael's ability to be able to connect with the person and to grow and heal, because we were two individuals, two humans in that moment who had went through similar experiences. And it does hit me from time to time that I never would have been able to connect with them in that capacity or that way if I hadn't gone through it myself.

Speaker 1: 31:00

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 31:01

Do you feel that way at the time? Absolutely not.

Speaker 1: 31:04

No, for me, it was a great way to have an understanding about the relationships I have in my life. Yeah, so I started to then look at relationships in a completely different way, and that every single person who crossed my path is part of that contract, and it's never a one-sided contract, that's. I think sometimes we forget that as well, because if we've agreed to show up in each other's lives, we're all trying to understand something, and so that person is here to help me understand something, just as I am there to help that person understand something.

Speaker 2: 31:44

Because I know we talked about that briefly when neither of us had a voice during the week.

Speaker 1: 31:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:49

It's that for an extended period of time and I'm using an example here it's that sometimes, when we're in a relationship with somebody and we've known for quite some time, the relationship is over or that we know that our journey with them, it's time to move on. But I also think we can all relate to times. Sometimes, even when you know it's over, there's a party that's not allowed to leave.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Or there's just a party that says I want to leave but I just can't for some reason, which is not the right time. And then we try to convince ourselves that we're putting things off or self-sabotaging, and sometimes that might be the case. But then sometimes, when you look at the spiritual contract part of this, that yes, in your contract you're ready to leave, but the other person still needs you a part of their contract because they're not finished with you yet. So that actually was a bit of a game changer of finally having that understanding, in some ways, of viewing it through different lands, as you were even talking about, because, as you said, it goes both ways.

Speaker 1: 32:48

When I look back in hindsight. I was so not finished with the contract And I had to sit after my divorce and I'm not sure if I've shared this or not, but I sat after my divorce trying to find a way to walk away from that relationship without being bitter and angry and resentful. And in doing that I had to kind of do this review. And of course I got these beautiful children And of course there were some great times during that relationship. But there were a lot of times that weren't, and so I was like how can I? I don't want to have that kind of thing, because I will be in this person's life for as long as my children are alive.

Speaker 1: 33:29

But in the end what I really came to is so I kind of understood what I was in his life for, I think because of course I'm not in his head and I don't know what it was, but my assumption And I was grappling with well, what was the contract he had with me?

Speaker 1: 33:48

And then I went oh my gosh, he stayed till I could stand up and speak my truth and speak my find my voice really, and it led me to tears, gareth. I remember sitting on that couch, crying because what came to me after that was, as much as there was a lot of negativity in that relationship, i thought, wow, he must have really loved me because he stuck around for a long time for me to find my voice. And I was like, wow, once I had that realization, things shifted And there was no longer the anger, there was no longer the bitterness and the resentment. You know, still human, still get upset about certain things. But, like I know that now I had the understanding of what it was about, i don't have that angst anymore And, trust me, i thought it was supposed to be finished a long time before it actually finished.

Speaker 2: 34:52

I think that's amazing thing to do the look back and suddenly have all this wisdom now. But no, i agree. But this is also what's fascinating is on the different to how you would have met your husband at the time or how you ended up meeting him under those circumstances many minutes ago. But I think it's that even the people that we meet throughout life and even say even how you and I connected back in Australia at that time, is there's parts of it where you couldn't write it, even if you tried to, the people that you're meant to connect with, the people you end up building a bond with relationship with, and even the people that come and go, it's still had a huge impact on you.

Speaker 2: 35:33

Is that if we had that level of control while here in the physical, a lot of these experiences or even magical moments, what have occurred because there is definitely something more divine within us assisting us with that journey is kind of the point. And there is a part that will always give me huge comfort in that process is actually how little control I have, because if I was to take the wheel, i think I definitely would have exactly where there's actually no one. That, that energy, part of me, that my spirit, my soul, grace, whatever you want to call it, is actually guiding the process And my responsibilities look after the human parts of me and my body, emotions and process in those realities. I'll do that, but I let the fourth part of me, being my energy, guide that process. And it did take me a long time to find that balance within me, to get comfortable with that formula, which comes back to the overall conversation of secret contracts, which helped with that process of acceptance of that reality.

Speaker 1: 36:35

And I think it does take quite a bit of wrapping your head around it and understanding that it is that key thing for us and that we're okay if we can really just see that we're going to be okay. As long as we are really tuning in and trying to have that understanding, i mean we're going to be okay either way. I shouldn't say, if we do that because we're going to be okay either way, it's just going to be as I used to say how long am I going to bang my head against the wall? Well, how long do I want to avoid? or how long do I not want to really try and understand what this experience is?

Speaker 2: 37:12

here, and sometimes we're banging our head against the wall, knowing we shouldn't be banging our head against the wall, but we keep banging against the wall because it's that, even when it comes to these spiritual understandings, topics, subjects, whatever you want to call them, is that, i think, for anyone to actually understand what these represent for you and your unique journey, you have to take them out, you have to pull them apart, you have to throw them out the window. Then you have to go outside and bring it back in and then you look through it again and then you have to throw it out the window because you have to go through that back and forward. I know that's what we've talked about in previous episodes that it's not meant to be something you just sit down and accept immediately just because someone said so.

Speaker 2: 37:53

Absolutely, because a lot of our experiences are just too unique to us And even when people would say, no, i understand what you're going through, it's kind of the worst thing you can say to somebody, because you have an idea of what the person is going through to some degree, and I get that people are trying to comfort us at times, in those moments especially, so the meaning can be lovely and correct. However, it's that we're the only ones in our own journeys who can really understand what we've been through in those experiences in mind, body, emotions and soul. And it is also our responsibility to ourselves, and only to ourselves, to explore them or not. And the reason why I say or not? because I feel it's wrong per se to say that everyone must or has to explore all of their experiences and has to understand why they're here. Because I think you'll find this more than enough examples around us to remain out of 8 billion people to say that that is not everyone's spiritual journey to here And that is perfect for them.

Speaker 2: 38:54

But this is also why we've also had family members and friends I'm sure you'll agree with us that are not meant to work on themselves. That will not go to therapy, that will not. You can say, those people need it the most at times. That's why you want to bang your head against the wall, but it's at the same time, if it's not in their contract to do so. That's why you can only look at your own.

Speaker 1: 39:15

Well, i think it's a really important point and it's also a point to why it's so important that we come away from the comparison, so we get taught to compare ourselves to others not necessarily intentionally, but we do. We're always looking at what somebody else is doing, or how they're achieving or what they're doing, and it's so detrimental to our own journey, because our journeys could be completely different.

Speaker 2: 39:42

Yeah, the journeys can happen and coincide with one another, but in the details and definitions of what each person might experience can be so different, and I think that's why we need to learn to actually respect each person's journey and to actually stop trying to control what someone else should or shouldn't be doing, because, as you and I have learned the hard way at times, trying to convince someone why they should work on themselves or why they should do something is often just a waste of energy, because it's in their contract whether they'll do it or not.

Speaker 2: 40:11

So it always ends up forcing you back on the having to focus on yourself, which is what this journey is about. But that does not mean becoming a hermit or moving to an island on your own. That's what we do, even though I know sometimes you've said you wanted to do otherwise. But it's that it is about understanding how to get that balance, because people are not that frustrating when you're able to understand my body, emotions and soul of why they are the way they are And you're able to accept that it's their journey and that you're on yours. But in saying that, the human qualities that actually appear in us will emotionally fight that at times, which is the normal after all these years of still being on their journey, because sometimes you just want to shake yourself or shake somebody else And there's those qualities. No matter how far you understand into spiritual sacred contracts or contracts in general, that's still going to be there from time to time and that's okay.

Speaker 1: 41:03

Well, and I think that's where I love to say to people regardless of what you're doing and regardless of what your understanding of it all is, the bottom line is you're still human, you're still having a human experience. And to think that you're going to have something other than a human experience, why you're here in this form, you know you're just you're just kind of shooting yourself in the foot with that, because it's just important to recognize we can have a lot of understandings. I have so many understandings And, as I said to you in another podcast, it drives me crazy when I'm in my stuff and someone goes Oh, i thought you already had all that figured out. It's like if I did, i wouldn't be here. Just because I'm really good at helping other people And because I've been through a lot of experiences and I've processed a lot of my experiences doesn't mean I'm still not going to have experiences.

Speaker 2: 41:56

Yeah, but I think that's why that's kind of what's problematic in the industry to some degrees And I know we will talk about this so many times is that you have so many teachers and I won't say gurus and mentors, and even sometimes really educated people who you can respect for the level of their art, but because often 90% of the time they actually don't talk about their own human experiences and the stuff that they're going through and their ongoing challenges And just something to connect to is why we all have this expectation that once you do the work on yourself, that all problems cease to exist, or even old problems cease to exist, when the reality is they will continue to rear their head from time to time, but we're just more accepting of that reality.

Speaker 2: 42:42

We don't judge ourselves. You don't fight ourselves as often, we don't fight life as much, so you can still be in the flow under those circumstances. That could be such a beautiful thing. I think that's why you and I want to approach this podcast and be a lot more open about that fact that I actually don't think will ever change. But that does not mean that we're falling behind or not doing something right, because we're actually quite content with the way it is.

Speaker 1: 43:04

Hmm, well, at times, let's be real There are times when I'm not very content with the way it is.

Speaker 2: 43:10

That's worth my job. The whole lot's for you.

Speaker 1: 43:17

And so again, that comes down to another point. So a long time ago I wrote a book and this little phrase in this book stuck with me. We remember and then we forget, and we just need to have someone help us remember again. You know, because we forget, because it's also part of the contract, because we have a new experience to go through, and then when we have someone who is guiding us through it or holding space for us through it, they help us remember. Oh yeah, that's right, it's not really happening, you know, because of me it's happening, so that I can understand.

Speaker 2: 43:57

But it's a huge point because I know, even when we talked about manifestation and that episode at that time is that what somebody found interesting is that when we talked about how manifestation is designed to fail at times, because, it exposes us to new experiences that allow us to grow long term.

Speaker 2: 44:15

So, as you said, we're made to forget because that exposes us to new experiences as well, and then it comes rushing back when we need it sometimes and then it grows together. There's so much beauty in how messy life is, but it does not mean that it's still not hard at times to process the realities of it, and I just feel that the secret contract or not, or if you believe in it or not, there's just certain realities and none of us have been taught how to actually accept, process, go through the trenches of some of these realities. There's just not enough people being I want to say you know, like me, using this word but vulnerable with their experiences and their realities And just for them to know that they're not alone.

Speaker 2: 44:58

And I think that's actually what I love about. hopefully, what our podcast is doing for a lot of people is just having people recognize that the experiences that they're going through, they're not the first or last person to go through this experience and that you will get through it. And I'm not talking about I just hope that that gives people comfort in that fact.

Speaker 1: 45:17

I agree with that And because you know, for years that is, i didn't know I was being vulnerable, i didn't understand that's what I was doing. I really wanted to share some of the experiences that I had, not because I thought I understood what somebody else was going through, but because I wanted people to see that they were not walking this path alone, that you know, we might have just hit an intersection where you and I are crossing our individual paths at this moment. For me to be able to share that experience with you, so that you can go Yep, okay, somebody else has managed to move through this, so can I?

Speaker 1: 45:58

And it might be all there is.

Speaker 2: 46:00

But sometimes that's all it takes at times to give us the hope that we need to follow our own journey, our own path, because the answers for you or I versus someone else is always going to be completely different, and sometimes all we need is a bit of encouragement or hope that we can do it, because that's often something that's been missing for all of us since we were very young, because the parents, the people around us or our caregivers didn't know how to give us that because they didn't have it themselves. So, no matter what age you are, is that this messaging is actually? it allows us to mature and to be able to accept some of the realities in life that we just never had the opportunity to, and that's all part of the journey.

Speaker 1: 46:39

It's all part of this wonderful journey. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you would like to explore these topics more with us, please go to wwwpatreoncom. Forward slash practical spirituality podcast. Not only will that help us keep producing these shows, but you'll also get advanced access to each new episode. The opportunity to ask questions directly of Gareth and I. Input into what topics we will cover on the show. Access to exclusive content not available anywhere else. See you over on Patreon.